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3D Max - inverted normals (bis) [message #3719] Thu, 02 April 2009 21:06 UTC Go to next message
avatar Magic  is currently offline Magic
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Sorry Animemi, I am posting exactly the same subject as you.
I have the same problem (inverted normals) that probably comes from the use of booleans in 3DS Max.
My object is quite complex, and I did it at least 3 times and still there is a problem.
So I try with something (that I thought was) easier.
But even with 2 cubes, I got the inverted normals and I cannot figure out where those inverted normals actually are.
It drives me crazy.
How can I fix a problem I cannot see?
I try with edit normals in 3DS MAx and all seems fine. And I can see no hidden geometry, no overlapping faces.

So, what wrong ?

Can anyone help me, please?

Thanks.


So many things to design, so little time...
Re: 3D Max - inverted normals (bis) [message #3720 is a reply to message #3719 ] Thu, 02 April 2009 22:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar virtox  is currently offline virtox
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I had a look at your test, indeed shapeways bounces it, although it looks perfectly normal.
However, just importing and exporting and it uploaded fine..

I used binary STL format, and after some testing this seems to be it !

When I export from max in ascii STL, shapeways says : inverted normals, when exported in binary STL, it is accepted.

Give binary a try ?

Hope it helps !

[Updated on: Thu, 02 April 2009 22:10 UTC]


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Re: 3D Max - inverted normals (bis) [message #3723 is a reply to message #3720 ] Thu, 02 April 2009 22:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Magic  is currently offline Magic
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Thank you Virtox.

I am afraid you are right. I was trying to find a rational reason where there was none. It's just... magic!

Actually I turned the STL to ASCII because I though I would be easier to check if there was an issue on my complex model (that actually is not so complex, but just more than 2 cubes), and that's what caused the issue in the simple model.

Crying or Very Sad

OK, time for me to go to bed, I guess...
Bye.


So many things to design, so little time...
Re: 3D Max - inverted normals (bis) [message #3726 is a reply to message #3723 ] Fri, 03 April 2009 09:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ANIMEMI  is currently offline ANIMEMI
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Glad to hear that.

I am pretty sure I used Binary on all my attempts (I think its the default and has smaller file size). So I think my mesh must be a mess somehow.
icon5.gif  Re: 3D Max - inverted normals (bis) [message #3782 is a reply to message #3723 ] Mon, 06 April 2009 12:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Magic  is currently offline Magic
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Hi Shapeways team,

Any chance to fix this issue with ASCII STL?
This is not very important, but if it's not meant to be fixed, you could indicate that only binary STL are supported as an input.
Thank you!


So many things to design, so little time...
Re: 3D Max - inverted normals (bis) [message #3794 is a reply to message #3782 ] Mon, 06 April 2009 15:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Whystler  is currently offline Whystler
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Just a lil tip:

If you are making hollow models in Max, it's easiest to use the "shell" modifier, rather than to use subtractive methods.

To do this, select your model, and then go to the modifiers menu, choose parametric deformers, and choose "shell"

Automatically, the program will use the surface of your original model as the "inner surface" of the shell, and it will "push out" a second outer surface ... usually quite far by default if you haven't used it yet. But you can go into the settings of the shell flyout (to the right side of the window), and change the amount it pushes out the outer surface. Alternatively, you can also specify the other parameter, which instead of using your original model's surface as the inner surface, instead uses it as the outer surface of the shell, and pushes inwardly.

-Whystler

[Updated on: Mon, 06 April 2009 15:47 UTC]


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Re: 3D Max - inverted normals (bis) [message #3802 is a reply to message #3794 ] Mon, 06 April 2009 18:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AO  is currently offline AO
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Magic,Virtox,

I have been using Binair Stl for s while and had problems in printing. I made them in solid works. I had to open them in meshlab to make them printable ( dialect problem ).
I change the settings to Asci in solid works and also changed the settings to fine ( before I tried to get the highest resolution as possible ).
Since then I don't have any problems anymore. In my case asci files don't create problems. Most of the time now its how I modeled something if I have a problem.

Greetings AO
Re: 3D Max - inverted normals (bis) [message #3808 is a reply to message #3802 ] Mon, 06 April 2009 21:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Magic  is currently offline Magic
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To Whistler:
Thanks for the tip. Actually I used no substraction nor intersection boolean for the Zen box. The main parts are done with shapes that I extruded. The problem is that there are mainly 3 profiles (or say, "sections") and I had to "glue" them together. For that I used the union boolean, but most of all I tried to add vertices in some shapes: those vertices were useless to this shape itself, but were present in the following shape section (it helps to keep the consistency of the polygons).
Nevertheless, I had to manually clean the model (a lot of internal faces and even edges, and one strange polygon).

To AO:
If the STL format are supported, all the dialects should be supported (or alternatively you should precise which dialects are supported). I understand that ascii and binary formats work most of the time, but I have a very simple example (in attachment in my initial post) where the ascii does not work and the binary does work. I used to be a programmer: if you can reproduce a bug, then this bug should no more exist.Wink
What exactly is the fine setting related to?

[Updated on: Mon, 06 April 2009 21:43 UTC]


So many things to design, so little time...
Re: 3D Max - inverted normals (bis) [message #3879 is a reply to message #3808 ] Fri, 10 April 2009 09:38 UTC Go to previous message
avatar AO  is currently offline AO
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Hi Magic,

In solid works the settimg fine is an automatic setting.
You can choose :
coarse: deviation tolerance 0.1199 and angle tolerance 30 degrees.
fine : def tolerance 0,0462 and angle tolerance 10 degrees custom: deviation and angle tolerance can be changed more rough or fine.

Since I changed to ascii and to fine I don't have problems anymore.
Greetings AO

 
   
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