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Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #36962] Wed, 19 October 2011 18:53 UTC Go to next message
avatar extrudedqwerty  is currently offline extrudedqwerty
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I've run into some problems with re-sellers. They'll buy several models, then re-sell them with a crazy markup (6-8 times more than original cost) on ebay and etsy. I'm really not sure how to proceed. I can flag him on etsy- his item isn't handmade by himself- but etsy doesn't respond to reports. It seems useless and unwarranted to proceed to work with ebay(as no ebay rules are violated). So what should be done? Should I embrace this as competition and compete with him on ebay? Can I choose not to sell to him on Shapeways?
This particular seller has also re-sold IPhone "Settings" Earrings made by Noesis.
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #36963 is a reply to message #36962 ] Wed, 19 October 2011 19:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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I'm not sure what you should do, if he's making that much profit off your item, you could move your mark-up higher. You could add an inscription to the item that says designed by extrudedqwerty or what ever you wish. I'm surprised Etsy allows him to sell your items after you notified them. And you can set you item to not be for sale publicly, but if he has the link already, you may have to reupload the items or contact support@shapeways.com to see if they can change the link for you. Either way I'd contact support to see what Shapeways can do.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #36964 is a reply to message #36963 ] Wed, 19 October 2011 19:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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If people are willing to pay this guy 6 or 8 times your selling price, then they will be will to pay you the same or more. One of the most difficult lessons that makers have to learn is that produce are very easy to underprice, and that by raising the price towards what customers think is fair can often increase sales.
So I would watch this guy of the next few weeks and see how well things go for him then adjust your prices accordingly. Of course this may mean you have to do more marketing, but that is a cost that should be included in your retail price anyway.


Bill Bedford
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #36966 is a reply to message #36962 ] Wed, 19 October 2011 19:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar extrudedqwerty  is currently offline extrudedqwerty
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Well, according to his ebay history, he's sold more in a month than I have in 2 years, which is extremely discouraging. I find it hard to believe that people would pay so much more and think that an influencing factor is the convenience of ebay.

[Updated on: Wed, 19 October 2011 19:34 UTC]

Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #36970 is a reply to message #36966 ] Wed, 19 October 2011 19:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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Quote:

Well, according to his ebay history, he's sold more in a month than I have in 2 years, which is extremely discouraging.

Then put your prices up, he has shown you what the market price of your pieces is, so it's much better that you get the money for your work, than some other guy.
Quote:

I find it hard to believe that people would pay so much more

You will be surprised what people will pay for something they like and is out of the ordinary.


Bill Bedford
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #36971 is a reply to message #36962 ] Wed, 19 October 2011 20:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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How has he sold more than you when he's buying them from you?


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #36977 is a reply to message #36971 ] Wed, 19 October 2011 21:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar extrudedqwerty  is currently offline extrudedqwerty
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err, I meant profited more, not sold more units Embarassed . So, I guess I just need to adjust my prices. Thanks for the suggestions!
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #36983 is a reply to message #36977 ] Wed, 19 October 2011 22:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar christopherlowe  is currently offline christopherlowe
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i would go even further- talk to this person and strike up a deal... maybe do an exclusive thing with him... sell to him exclusively or combo an item- every time he wants a popular thing- sell him something else and if he balks- remember that you have the upper hand. you are the supplier and you can always pull the design...

boy i love capitalism.

oh and if you are still not satisfied- send him my way... ill make whatever he wants...(within reason of course, i won't copy a design)

chris


please visit my blog at...
http://chrisshopofmodels.blogspot.com
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #36987 is a reply to message #36983 ] Wed, 19 October 2011 23:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar extrudedqwerty  is currently offline extrudedqwerty
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Well, this somewhat brings up an old issue, that I can't communicate with my buyers, unless they contact me first.
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #36996 is a reply to message #36987 ] Thu, 20 October 2011 00:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hey all,

This is the first case that we are aware of that a third party buys up stock and resells without the designers participation.

It does sound like the price you offer is too low if the market is willing to pay a higher price.

This is a good problem to have.

Up the price a little and see if he increases his margin too?

It is like having a personal marketing and distribution department outside of Shapeways. Congratulations.

[Updated on: Thu, 20 October 2011 00:46 UTC]



Duann Scott, Designer Evangelist, Shapeways
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #37004 is a reply to message #36996 ] Thu, 20 October 2011 05:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Shadowknight1  is currently offline Shadowknight1
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The problem is that he's FLEECING people on eBay. He puts up his items as "limited editions" and "one of a kind!" to entice people into buying them. This obviously isn't the case as I could buy a dozen of the item in silver if I had the money to do that. When people see something on eBay that is billed as being limited or one of a kind, they tend to go for the high price without realizing where the item is coming from.

EDIT: I was the one that first brought this to extrudedqwerty's attention.

[Updated on: Thu, 20 October 2011 06:00 UTC]

Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #37103 is a reply to message #37004 ] Fri, 21 October 2011 10:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Magic  is currently offline Magic
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@extrudedqwerty
After that you have raised up your markup for silver so that your object on Shapeways is more expensive than the price proposed on ebay, why not buying one on ebay to see what happens...


So many things to design, so little time...
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #37104 is a reply to message #36962 ] Fri, 21 October 2011 11:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pfeiffer stylez  is currently offline pfeiffer stylez
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extrudedqwerty wrote on Wed, 19 October 2011 18:53

Should I embrace this as competition and compete with him on ebay?

Why not ?

Open your own ebay store, use the same auction titles as your reseller, but be cheaper... charge Shapeways' shipping fees, use a phrase like "will ship the item (insert Shapeways normal lead time here) after payment", and send it direct from SW to the bidder. ^^

You could also write something like "You can save X $ if you order this item in my Shapeways shop" in the description, and add a link.

[Updated on: Fri, 21 October 2011 13:06 UTC]

Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #37105 is a reply to message #37104 ] Fri, 21 October 2011 11:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Magic  is currently offline Magic
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Two remarks:
- you cannot advertize Shapeways in eBay (competing shop)
- you cannot use Shapeways to deliver items outside your own country (so you will have to take care about the shipping)
But I agree, if your items are successful on eBay, you should open your own shop there.
You will have no difficulties to compete with your "non-official reseller"... Smile


So many things to design, so little time...
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #37110 is a reply to message #37105 ] Fri, 21 October 2011 13:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pfeiffer stylez  is currently offline pfeiffer stylez
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Magic wrote on Fri, 21 October 2011 11:38

- you cannot advertize Shapeways in eBay (competing shop)


Wuuups. That's right. Embarassed
Sorry, I'm not familiar with ebay's terms for shops.

Magic wrote on Fri, 21 October 2011 11:38

- you cannot use Shapeways to deliver items outside your own country

Isn't this just a problem for people who pay by credit card?

Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #37796 is a reply to message #36962 ] Wed, 02 November 2011 17:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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As a few people have said. Compete with him on EBay. According to you even if you double your SW price (to cover your cost for printing and then re-shipping) you will still undercut the other guy and make money.

Jeez, I wish I was in that position....


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #38002 is a reply to message #37004 ] Sat, 05 November 2011 11:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AD-Edge  is currently offline AD-Edge
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Shadowknight1 wrote on Thu, 20 October 2011 05:59

The problem is that he's FLEECING people on eBay. He puts up his items as "limited editions" and "one of a kind!" to entice people into buying them. This obviously isn't the case as I could buy a dozen of the item in silver if I had the money to do that. When people see something on eBay that is billed as being limited or one of a kind, they tend to go for the high price without realizing where the item is coming from.

EDIT: I was the one that first brought this to extrudedqwerty's attention.


Im definitely agreeing with Shadowknight1 here, the guy reselling sounds very dodgy, and is more than likely taking advantage of people on ebay, and its potentially less about the possibility that shapeways shop version is under-priced.
Therfore competing with this guy does two things,
1 - it means you have to (to some degree) think about taking advantage of people as well, by charging several times more for something which was in fact much cheaper to print. I wouldnt rule it out however that the original models being sold on shapeways could be underpriced. But still... Unless you advertise them as unique and rare objects to deceive people, your already not able to compete with this guy.
2 - Doesnt solve the fact that this guy is making money (and will continue to make money) off a product you spent time and worked on making available to sell to people.


Id be doing everything possible to get rid of this guy.
Ive had a case like this in the past (not related to shapeways) where someone credited themselves with work Id done, then started selling said work. I sent a warning email as soon as someone informed me of it, and was a matter of hours away from talking to my legal contacts about options, when the guy backed down and did as I asked.
I feel as if I got it easy though, this ebay seller could be more of a challenge.



Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #38006 is a reply to message #36962 ] Sat, 05 November 2011 12:23 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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I agree he's making money off re-selling items bought here, but apart from the shady way he's doing it (advertising as unique and one of a kind) he's perfectly entitled to do that. Unless you specifically put on the model page "Not to be re-sold" then he won't stop. And I doubt he would stop even then.

This is the whole nature of retail - Buy Low and Sell High. If there are people willing to pay those prices (without being deceived) then it will continue.

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #38009 is a reply to message #38006 ] Sat, 05 November 2011 12:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AD-Edge  is currently offline AD-Edge
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lensman wrote on Sat, 05 November 2011 12:23

I agree he's making money off re-selling items bought here, but apart from the shady way he's doing it (advertising as unique and one of a kind) he's perfectly entitled to do that. Unless you specifically put on the model page "Not to be re-sold" then he won't stop.



What??? No, it doesnt work like that.

Quote:

On the Shapeways portal you can let other people see your work by making a model "available to all" and you can "show" the model or "show and allow ordering." None of these settings will mean that any rights you have to this model will be transferred to the people viewing or ordering your model.

Please do not infringe other people's intellectual property rights. (Intellectual property rights means copyright, patent, registered design, design right, trade mark, trade secret.)

We do live in a culture of re-mix, re-use and mashup but a good rule of thumb here is that if a person does not clearly give you the right to use their design, invention, logo, text, slogan etc. then you do not have the right to use it


Straight from the SW copyright info.
Note that this is regarding using other peoples work, let alone going the step further to misrepresent someone else's work and then sell it.

Its not acceptable.



Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #38011 is a reply to message #36962 ] Sat, 05 November 2011 13:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Nope. What they are talking about is using someone else's DIGITAL FILE. This is what "Make available to all" means. If, indeed he has taken the file and re-used it then I agree. HOWEVER, this was not stated in the original post - simply that someone is buying a product and re-selling it. Again, this is the way retail is done, right? If I buy an Apple iPad for $500 I am perfectly within my rights to re-sell it for $1000 if I can find a sucker to buy it. BUT I am NOT allowed to MAKE my own iPad based on Apple's designs.

There is NOTHING in Shapeways "rules" that states someone can't buy one of my printed models and re-sell it.

Your point re mis-representing I agree with, as I said earlier.

Glenn





Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #38034 is a reply to message #38011 ] Sat, 05 November 2011 20:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar extrudedqwerty  is currently offline extrudedqwerty
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lensman wrote on Sat, 05 November 2011 13:10

If I buy an Apple iPad for $500 I am perfectly within my rights to re-sell it for $1000 if I can find a sucker to buy it. BUT I am NOT allowed to MAKE my own iPad based on Apple's designs.




Exactly.
To furthermore complicate "rights", the design isn't mine. It's based on Nintendo's intellectual property, so to pursue him legally somehow would probably be absurd.
Regardless, I will be attempting to sell what models I do have on ebay, just to see how that'll go.
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #38057 is a reply to message #38034 ] Sun, 06 November 2011 09:03 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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You might shoot yourself in the foot but you could send a load of hassle the re-seller's way by informing Nintendo of the re-seller's breach of Nintendo's IP rights Twisted Evil

Or you could use the ebay reporting system to notify ebay of the false claims made by the re-seller - be sure to include links to your model page to show the item is readily produced and not as rare as claimed.

Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #38243 is a reply to message #38057 ] Wed, 09 November 2011 16:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar baltimore  is currently offline baltimore
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I've sold steel prints, and someone has cast my print, and sold it in silver without my consent. There's nothing really I can do about it once the part has left my possession.


www.Custom3dStuff.com
Re: Choose not to sell to certain buyers? [message #38245 is a reply to message #36962 ] Wed, 09 November 2011 17:14 UTC Go to previous message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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@Baltimore - Depends on what you mean by "nothing really I can do about it" In the eyes of the law you WOULD be able to do something about it, but whether you actually COULD do something depends on a lot of facts, such as do you know who copied and sold your model, where are they, etc., etc. Buying a model and re-selling it is one thing - buying it, copying it and THEN selling it is quite another.

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery

 
   
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