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Re: New price structure [message #35713 is a reply to message #35710 ] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar B1lancer  is currently offline B1lancer
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mctrivia wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 18:09

Who wants a die that is 20cc? Bigger is not always Better. The new price structure is fair. And they can always reduce costs in the future if they find it is overpriced.


That's why I put "or greater quantity of" in the brackets, I know that people don't want massive dice, but a collection of 6 dice is better for Shapeways distribution-wise than a single die.

I play wargames and I have never bought a single die, I have always bought packs of several dice. I don't think encouraging people to buy several dice for the same price as a single die is a bad thing?

Regards,

Jackr

[Updated on: Sun, 02 October 2011 18:21 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #35714 is a reply to message #35713 ] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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My bigest customer usually buys 30+ at a time. The new pricing is cheaper for him as the $0.1 cheaper per cc is more then the $6.50 for postage


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Re: New price structure [message #35716 is a reply to message #35714 ] Sun, 02 October 2011 18:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar B1lancer  is currently offline B1lancer
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mctrivia wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 18:25

My bigest customer usually buys 30+ at a time. The new pricing is cheaper for him as the $0.1 cheaper per cc is more then the $6.50 for postage


Which is great unless you live in the majority of the world where shipping is $19.99 Confused
Re: New price structure [message #35718 is a reply to message #35716 ] Sun, 02 October 2011 19:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar glehn  is currently offline glehn
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I think each shop category has its own peculiarities. I don't know anything about jewlery or dice. I only make miniatures. I chose to make scale models that are not produced in plastic or resin by anybody else. But modelers have an expectation towards the price of these models. So in this case, I can't define any mark-up value I want (well, I could but then no one would buy it then). I try to keep the final price attractive to these modelers.
Also, my customers in general only buy two or three models at a time, so, I don't expect they will be able to dillute the higher shipping costs over several models in a single order.
When I started making my models with Shapeways I thought it would be an affordable way for modelers everywhere to be able to get scale models that are not produced by mainstream manufacturers.
I think with this new price strucure they will only be affordable for people in the US and Europe.
Re: New price structure [message #35720 is a reply to message #35711 ] Sun, 02 October 2011 19:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bluelinegecko  is currently offline bluelinegecko
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designerica wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 18:10

the toughest part of this price issue right now is the suddenness and the significance for my best-selling items. a model that previously cost me 5.00 in steel now costs 10.00. that's a 100% increase, not including shipping. i could handle an increase of a dollar or two. but 100%?

i realize that the 5.00 was probably losing you money. but the 10.00 means i can't make them at all, so is that better? if i upload two at a time (same work for you as a pair of earrings, right?), it averages to 7. i can handle 7.

.


I've also been thinking about this.....

Most of my co-creator sales have been for my pet tags I have listed. When I designed them I was shooting for the $25 sweet spot. A custom stainless steel tag for $25-35 was much more attractive when you explained to people that the price included shipping (and for most US customers no sales tax) I've adjusted my markup down (not that it's high to begin with) to try to offset the increase in cost a bit, but the shipping charge still adds $6.50 (or more for some countries) to the cost of each item if ordered separately.

I'd also love to see Shapeways consider reinstating the free shipping idea, even at a higher price target ($50, hell even $100? if necessary) as an incentive for larger orders.. Orders under that rate could pay the $6.50 shipping.

I'm curious to see what the guys at Shapeways would feel if I made "2-packs" available for my co-creators. Like designerica said, it's not any different than a set of earnings or cuff-links. What it would do though is, say for a plain stainless steel print, reduce the cost of two items by $6.25 each. ( $6 start up cost + $6.50 shipping / 2). Actually with the price/cm3 lower in many materials orders would probably end up slightly less expensive than before.

Shapeways benefits from 2 sales instead of one, and better shipping efficiency by bundled items shipping together. The time spent on manual review of the models should be a bit improved as both are virtually identical models (and in the case of a co-creator, probably a basic design that has been printed successfully several times). Now, sure there's a little more cleaning and handling involved by doing it this way. But again limiting it to two items would make it no different that a set of earrings/cufflinks.

My customer benifits from a lower price for buying 2 items.

I benefit slightly by getting two orders at once and spending slightly less time modeling and uploading one file.

Would this be acceptable for you guys at shapeways? I want to ask before I do so since I wouldn't want you guys to have the system abused and eventually only allow 1 item per file for all orders.

[Updated on: Sun, 02 October 2011 20:54 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #35723 is a reply to message #35688 ] Sun, 02 October 2011 21:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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B1lancer wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 13:50

stop4stuff wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 10:26

The old pricing structure did not have postage as a % of the model cost, the deal was $25 minimum order with shipping included. You might interpret that as a % of the model cost, but what if the model cost was only $15? With the new pricing structure the total cost is slightly less (or more, depending which part of the world the model is shupped to.)

.





Of course the old pricing structure did! Unless UPS were giving Shapeways free postage?

The reason for the minimum order was so that Shapeways covered their costs of postage, this implies that a percentage of that $25 was kept aside to cover postage costs.

For example, a $25 order may break down as such:

$6 Postage

$7 Model production costs

$5 Handling

$7 Profit

My question is now we pay postage seperately we should see that $6 removed from our order cost by making the materials or handling fee slightly cheaper, right?




Ok... shall I get into trouble now, or can you move on???

[edit] sorry, i just read some of the rest of the posts (~20 or so) that've hit my inbox since i've been out... but my post here still stands.

Pick holes in Shapeways pricing stucture all you want, but at the end of the day Shapeways are adapting to their business plan, and for some members it seems that they have difficulty understanding business.

sorry for typos.

[Updated on: Sun, 02 October 2011 21:47 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #36135 is a reply to message #34810 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 13:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar razh00  is currently offline razh00
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I think the topic is simple: shapeways has now more clients than they can mange (as we can see on oreder delays) so they increase the price to get more profits.

thats basic economy. no more hidden reasons betond those changes.

But Me as a customer am not using and ordering from shapeways with their new price structure. And what i recommend you all to do is not to buy anything with new prices for at lesat one or two months so the company can feel they are loosing money.

Thats the only thing we can do. and remember things cost what people want to pay for them.

[Updated on: Fri, 07 October 2011 13:47 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #36136 is a reply to message #36135 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 13:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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razh00 wrote on Fri, 07 October 2011 13:45


I think the topic is simple: shapeways has now more clients than they can mange (as we can see on oreder delays) so they increase the price to get more profits.

thats basic economy. no more hidden reasons betond those changes.

But Me as a customer am not using and ordering from shapeways with their new price structure. And what i recommend you all to do is not to buy nothing with new prices for at lesat one or two months so the company can feel they are loosing money.

Thats the only thing we can do. and remember things cost what people wants to pay for them.

I don't think that is it at all. For some the price has gone down.

The reality is shapeways had a bad pricing structure before. I could make a 1cc model in detailed. Add $25 markup and shapeways would lose money on every sale.

The new pricing is probably more expensive on the whole. Part of this may be to make more money. Part of it may be they want to aim a little high and announce reductions later once they have more data on how there cost to profit ratio is working out.


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Re: New price structure [message #36138 is a reply to message #34810 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 14:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar roofoo  is currently offline roofoo
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Wow, I just had a really crappy experience with Shapeways. I ordered a model prior to October 1, then yesterday I got a rejection notice. They gave me a coupon but now the price for the model is $11.20 more than the coupon! I asked customer service if I can still order at the pre October 1 price since I had my order in before then, and they refused! They are unwilling to give me the deal they gave me last week, plus I will have to pay $6.50 shipping on top of what I already paid. This is just lousy on your part, Shapeways. Evil or Very Mad I hope you tank.


http://www.eyephoriadesign.com http://www.shapeways.com/shops/eyephoriadesign http://www.etsy.com/shop/eyephoriadesign
Re: New price structure [message #36141 is a reply to message #34810 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 14:51 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva  is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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That is unfortunate, what was the reason for rejection? If no solution is reachable, you can always ask for a refund, and try your order else where. Which ever way I hope you live long and prosper Very Happy


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: New price structure [message #36143 is a reply to message #36138 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 14:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hey Roofoo,

I am looking into it now.



Duann Scott, Designer Evangelist, Shapeways
Re: New price structure [message #36144 is a reply to message #36138 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 14:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar designerica  is currently offline designerica
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instead of asking for the old price (probably hard for them to do), ask for a coupon for the full value at the new price. they might be able to do that.


www.designerica.com
Re: New price structure [message #36149 is a reply to message #34810 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 15:23 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar designerica  is currently offline designerica
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still no answer on the question about putting two models into one file for small items. i'm going to continue to place orders like i always have. i'll let everyone know if i get a rejection for having multiple models in a single file.

friends at shapeways: i beg of you, if you want me to put a single model in each file and order that way, please make it easier for me to search and organize and order from my main design page. don't make me click on each model, wait for it to load, wait for it to load again with the right material, put it in the cart, go to the cart, go back to page one of my designs, find the next file, and start all over. it takes 10x as long as putting the models into a single file and uploading an order, and then you're charging me more. one quick fix would be to have each model open on a separate page, so i don't have to navigate back to the correct page of designs to add the next file. i try to remember to open in a separate page but it would be easier if it were built in.

and seriously-- if you don't want me to group models, please reject my files when i do it. i'll be very honest: it's very hard for me to spend more money voluntarily no matter how much i want to do "the right thing". as a fledgling business, i don't have that extra money. when i sell a product, i take the profit and buy more rings from you. i understand that you are a business and you have to make a profit, but this is business for me, as well.


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Re: New price structure [message #36154 is a reply to message #36149 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 15:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hi designerica,

Thanks for the feedback, I will flag it with our UX designer.

We do prefer a single model per file except in the case of cufflinks and earrings where we accept they are usually best worn as a pair. By putting multiple parts into a file it negates our pricing structure of a handling fee per item.

I REALLY appreciate your honesty in asking this question in a public forum and we do not currently reject orders based on multiple parts per file.

We may deal with this practice in the future but for now we simply ask that it be avoided.

Thanks again



Duann Scott, Designer Evangelist, Shapeways
Re: New price structure [message #36155 is a reply to message #36143 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 15:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar roofoo  is currently offline roofoo
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I just want to say that Duann sorted it out and gave me a coupon to cover the extra cost. Thanks for your help!

One thing I would like to say though. The current system of model rejection requires the customer to reupload and then reorder. This seems unnecessarily complicated to me. Instead, there should be a way to upload a revised model and attach it to the same order, rather than having to deal with refunds or coupons.

[Updated on: Fri, 07 October 2011 15:52 UTC]


http://www.eyephoriadesign.com http://www.shapeways.com/shops/eyephoriadesign http://www.etsy.com/shop/eyephoriadesign
Re: New price structure [message #36169 is a reply to message #36155 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 18:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar designerica  is currently offline designerica
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you're not the first to bring this up. but it seems this is the only way to do it, my understanding is that once an order goes to the printer it can be cancelled but not changed. so canceling and re-ordering is the only way.

i think i've gotten something like 20 or 30 coupon codes in the time i've been doing this.


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Re: New price structure [message #36182 is a reply to message #36169 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 20:23 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pete  is currently offline pete
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Guys,

we hear you with the re-order stuff and coupons.
The problem is quite simple at the moment we close the sale at the moment you order. When it is rejected, we have to cancel the order (or part of it). It also means you cannot add to the order anymore -> hence the vouchers.
Now, we are considering changing that to keeping the order open until we start printing. This is much more complex on the money collecting side, since it would require putting a hold on the credit card and only charge at the moment of print start, but it can be done.

Pete
Re: New price structure [message #36184 is a reply to message #36182 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 20:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar roofoo  is currently offline roofoo
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I think that would be the way to go, because it would also better enable consolidating shipments, instead of having various models shipped separately even though they were ordered together.


http://www.eyephoriadesign.com http://www.shapeways.com/shops/eyephoriadesign http://www.etsy.com/shop/eyephoriadesign
Re: New price structure [message #36188 is a reply to message #36184 ] Fri, 07 October 2011 21:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
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The new cost structure is fair since - as already mentioned before - a production consists of startup costs - printing cost - shipping costs.

Interesting would be, what shapeways can do to also improve prices for our shops with (small) items:

o) shipping costs in US seems rather ok, bringing Europa on the same level ($6.5) would be fine.

o) I've started to use sprues a long time ago with the introduction of handling fees for WSF.
To this time I discussed that with Pete and he stated that that's ok for shapeways since the small item becomes now a bigger item. And that reduces handling costs.

Shapeways simple can tell us the best system to make small parts.

o) If sprues are a solution then why not:
-) add stl files for a collection of items of the same type (1,2,5,10)
so the user can order more of an item thus reducing costs significantly
the stl files could be provided by us designers for the first step
(to be honest that would have been more helpful then changing the items page in parallel introducing more problems then advantages. Caused by this I can do nearly nothing to improve the situation since the new sides are nearly not handleable for mass changes)
-) the more interesting idea would be to add sprues automatically in the background

Or raise any other idea how to run the business for both sides.

In the first step shapeways has changed the things to make their business running. That's understandable and also in our interest.
(as always shapeways did it in a short term manner, without discussing it with the affected key user groups in advance and solve this problem before)
But as the designers make the world running for shapeways it would be fair to return some of the work we have done with a proper idea how to go on!!!!!!!!

Currently it's done in a way take it or die. But since we are also affected by end user behavior (our and shapeways customers, who ware willing to pay certain prices) that means die for some of us.

And that's a little bit a shame since some of us invested a lot during the last 3 years. Thus also allowing shapeways to grow.

Woody64


[Updated on: Fri, 07 October 2011 21:56 UTC]


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Re: New price structure [message #36295 is a reply to message #36188 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 04:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Zoe Brain  is currently offline Zoe Brain
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Here in Australia, I'm part of a wargaming group that used to buy a number of 1/144 aircraft miniatures from shapeways.

These cost about $8 each. Some up to $35. The price per model has changed a little - $9 and $31 for the same thing respectively- not enough to worry.

But the $25 minimum really made a difference. Customers would buy 4-6 models in a batch, average cost $50, because it was cheaper than the alternatives. If the minimum was raised to $50, and still no postage, shapeways would have perhaps sold more, not fewer models. It's relatively painless to go from a $45 to a $55 order, adding another plane, to get free postage.

But $20 for postage - when competitors are able to charge $6 - that puts people off. I know of $1000 in prospective orders that have been cancelled, people who had $45 or $55 worth in their shopping carts, just waiting for another plane design to be completed to get one shipment, who suddenly found the cost wasn't $45, but $70 now. So they flushed their carts.

Orders were doubling about every two months. Now they've flatlined.

Obviously a good thing if shapeways is losing money on each such order due to postage arrangements, and it means you won't have to be bothered by having to increase your capacity to deal with Asia/Pacific customers, a market that was exploding.

Not so good if you weren't losing money though.

I'm not sure you'll get these customers back - the changes weren't publicised too well. You lost a lot of goodwill.

Perhaps if you included alternate postage options, or gave free postage for $50 or even $100. Right now, even on a $100 order, the additional postage is a 20% price hike. Orders would have to be several hundred dollars to be lower than an acceptable 5% extra. If that's what it actually costs you, I think you can do better.
Re: New price structure [message #36296 is a reply to message #36295 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 04:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hey Zoe,

I understand your position in Australia, the change in shipping costs is significant, but this is closer to the true cost for Shapeways to distribute to Australia and New Zealand.

If you are part of a group would it be worthwhile to put in an order together to amortize the cost of shipping.

Yes the Australian community is growing fast, as is the interest in aircraft miniatures from what we are seeing and we would like to continue to make it possible for you to make what you want.

Please let us know what else we can do to make it viable for you?

Thanks for the feedback



Duann Scott, Designer Evangelist, Shapeways
Re: New price structure [message #36297 is a reply to message #34810 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 04:46 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Grimjier  is currently offline Grimjier
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What is going to be defined as sets? Is this a management decision or something the machine operator will decide?

You mention earrings and cufflinks, but those are not really different than any grouping except that they both (assuming metal) require more work on Shapeways part.

I am producing some jewelery (having done cufflinks and pendants) where I am glad to hear this kind of set will be supported, but I am also producing a lot of miniatures for wargames. If I group several of these I can make sets (more if the 1M polygon limit is raised without having to go to the zip file method) that should be both reasonable for Shapeways and within the wargame/miniature industry standards so buyers do not feel the product is overpriced.

If this is acceptable since it is a "set" how is it determined? Will there be a part limit per .STL file?

Will Shapeways provide an upload that auto-sprues .STL batches (or provide sprueing guidelines)?

Until an official policy is announced (one that I hope is grounded in reason and research as has generally been the case with new materials introduced), what I would hope Shapeways does not do is start auto-rejecting .STL files that contain more than one "part" (since that is still yet to be defined especially as with puzzles).

Please let us know how we can help influence this process,
Thanks!

-Grimjier
Re: New price structure [message #36303 is a reply to message #36296 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 06:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Zoe Brain  is currently offline Zoe Brain
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duann wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 04:43

If you are part of a group would it be worthwhile to put in an order together to amortize the cost of shipping.

Its a group of groups. Some of whom are further away from each other than Moskva is from Den Haag. Australia is the size of Europe or the US, but with the population of BeNeLux or Texas. Any amortisation of International shipping is offset by internal shipping - cheaper than inter-european costs, but still not insignificant.

While putting together an order for $100 is doable even by individuals, $500 is not (except in exceptional circumstances - model railroad clubs for example).

There is a high elasticity of demand - as soon as you go above the cost of competitors (Riviresco, Skytrex, Armaments in Miniature etc) demand plummets. You've just done that.

duann wrote

Yes the Australian community is growing fast,

Not any more, you've just killed it.

If you keep track of sales to Aus/NZ in October vs November, I'd be astounded if the sales don't drop by at least 90%, and don't grow further.

duann wrote

as is the interest in aircraft miniatures from what we are seeing

I'd expect a small drop in the USA, a larger drop in the UK and Europe, but a precipitous drop elsewhere.

As regards ANZ, the tweaking of prices to match actual production costs is a minor issue. It's the postage that's the killer.

duann wrote

and we would like to continue to make it possible for you to make what you want.


But you must be able it make a profit on it too! Maybe not as much as with other markets, but enough to make it worthwhile.

Other manufacturers though don't seem to have the same transport costs you do. Your products are light, and with suitable packaging, will be under 250g, 500g, and always under 1000g even for $500 of aircraft. Air Postal charges are based on weight primarily, rather than volume.

I was amazed that you could absorb shipping costs on orders of only $25. It's no surprise that you really couldn't. But if you can't on $100, there's something wrong. Either you're over-packing, or not using the most efficient method, or both.

Starting a subsidiary in Australia or NZ to service this market may be doable. The population of ANZ is about 25 million, postage costs a little less than USPS internally.

But if not, and it really does cost you $20 - or more - to ship here, that's not viable. Which would please neither of us, but facts are facts.
Re: New price structure [message #36304 is a reply to message #36303 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 07:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hey Zoe,

We use UPS as it is a totally traceable system. We do not lose items and we know exactly where they are at all times. We are looking into other postage options in the future, but would you be willing to risk an untraced package through standard post if Shapeways could not guarantee delivery? if it was cheaper? What would the ideal price point be for you?

I have been keeping a very close eye on the Australian community growth and orders as I am in Adelaide I have a vested interest.

Thanks again.



Duann Scott, Designer Evangelist, Shapeways
Re: New price structure [message #36305 is a reply to message #36304 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 08:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Zoe Brain  is currently offline Zoe Brain
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duann wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 07:07

would you be willing to risk an untraced package through standard post if Shapeways could not guarantee delivery? if it was cheaper? What would the ideal price point be for you?


Give the option. Personally, I'd recommend standard mail to Australia, as it's pretty reliable. I'd also recommend free shipping on orders of >$100. That I think is the optimum between cost to Shapeways and cost to consumer. It encourages customers to buy more than they'd really like to (increasing Shapeways profit) while defraying postage costs over a larger order.

Free shipping on $50 and you'd see a return to the same sales levels as at present, perhaps higher, but that's no use if the profit per sale is negligible. That's a "grow the market" price.

Looking over my previous orders, the best case is $84 now vs $73 before (large items cost significantly less now), worst case $45 now vs $28 before.

I didn't get a tracking number for that order, BTW. It's not as if UPS here was any more reliable than Australia Post.

Speaking personally - if there was free shipping on $100+, I'd be likely to buy that extra model or two. I'd get the same (or greater) number of models, but as 1 order of 10 every 4 months rather than 2 orders of 4, as I did before the change in rates.

The ideal shipping price for me *has* to be the one that maximises Shapeways profit. With $20 flat on everything, they've killed sales here. No sales, no profit. With $0 charge on only $25 orders, profit is also near nil. Whether profit would be higher at 0 cost per $50, or 0 cost at $100, I don't know. Sales would be much higher at 0 for $50, but profit per sale much less.

Psychologically, people would far rather pay $100 if they feel they're getting something free, as opposed to $80 plus $20 postage. .
Re: New price structure [message #36307 is a reply to message #36303 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 08:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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Zoe Brain wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 06:26


There is a high elasticity of demand - as soon as you go above the cost of competitors (Riviresco, Skytrex, Armaments in Miniature etc) demand plummets. You've just done that.

Shapeways gives you the ability to produce things that cannot easily be produced by conventional means and to exploit niche markets which other producers cannot afford to go into. If you can market on your product's uniqueness and difference from the mass market, then you will be able to capture your own customer base and charge a premium.
Trying to use 3D printing to compete with companies using conventional mass production methods is something that is bound to end in tears.


Bill Bedford
Re: New price structure [message #36308 is a reply to message #36304 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 08:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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duann wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 07:07

Hey Zoe,

We use UPS as it is a totally traceable system. We do not lose items and we know exactly where they are at all times. We are looking into other postage options in the future, but would you be willing to risk an untraced package through standard post if Shapeways could not guarantee delivery? if it was cheaper? What would the ideal price point be for you?

I have been keeping a very close eye on the Australian community growth and orders as I am in Adelaide I have a vested interest.

Thanks again.


Duann,

I don't know how the regular postal service work in the Netherlands, however, in the UK a package sent via Royal Mail is insured to the value of 100 x 1st class post price which is curently £0.46, meaning automatic insurance to the value of £46.00 (~$71.75)... say a package weighed 250g and was valued at $70, postage within Europe is ~$3.92, and the Rest of the World is ~$6.37 - add on packaging prices to that for your final figure.

Yes, its not tracked but tracking services are available at additional fees and so is extra insurance for additional fees.

fwiw, in 9 years of buying and selling (home and abroad) on ebay with over 800 transactions, and dozens of other online transactions, I've not once had a package not reach its destination. At times I have used RM's overseas tracking services and needed to use additional insuraces services.

You should also note that it is the sender's risk when sending an item as the delivery contract is between sender and carrier... a buyer faces no risk.

[Updated on: Mon, 10 October 2011 08:31 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #36309 is a reply to message #34810 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 08:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar virtox  is currently offline virtox
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For reference PostNL (non-bulk) rates:

index.php?t=getfile&id=11368&private=0

X 1.4 for $ prices.

First column, non-trace, second with trace
And this is without insurance.

I have had way less than 800 ebay transaction but have had several packages disappear using postal service.

And indeed it is usually the risk of the sender if things get lost.
But I assume, we do not want Shapeways spending too much time on lost packages and insurance claims.

  • Attachment: postnl.jpg
    (Size: 23.84KB, Downloaded 446 time(s))

[Updated on: Mon, 10 October 2011 08:58 UTC]


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Re: New price structure [message #36310 is a reply to message #34810 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 09:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tebee  is currently offline tebee
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Out of about 600 ebay transactions I've lost 5 but 3 of those were in a group posted at the same time so that may just be bad luck.

As Shapeways uses Paypal to accept payments it is obliged to provide tracking (or just compensate anyone who says it did not arrive)
Re: New price structure [message #36313 is a reply to message #36309 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 09:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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I forgot to mention, the prices I quoted were for Airmail, Surface mail is cheaper but takes much longer and a 2kg package for Rest of World sent Airmail would come in at ~$36.30 - compareable to Post NL, but insured to ~$71

Overall, Shapeways UPS shipping comes out quite well compared to other flat rate options.

Re: New price structure [message #36314 is a reply to message #36304 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 11:03 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Also being in Australia, I am gutted by the the new pricing structure. While I agree with everything Zoe said, her comment that Shapeways has lost a lot of good will in this part of the world is a huge understatement. And in this case, this part of the world seems to refer to the entire planet, bar Europe and the US.

From where i stand, charging $20 for shipping seems like either opportunism, or the pointed sniping of our business.

I have a pricing proposal which I haven't heard mentioned yet. Forgive me if it has and I have missed it. Free postage on orders over $40, or reasonable postage charges for anything below that. Charge for the volume of material used as before, and a start up fee for labour intensive processes, but also charge a percentage of the mark-up fee that sellers add. This way, if someone is selling an item that is small and cheap to produce, but valuable to buyers (like the miniature planes noted above) Shapeways also collects a cut of the profits, rather than feeling they have to change the system to shut that side of the business down.

Just a thought.
Re: New price structure [message #36315 is a reply to message #36314 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 11:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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shapeways already) charges 3% commission on markups. Any higher and people would be complaining that they are gouging us to pay for the Australians. And besides they would have to charge 50% to guarantee they still make money when shipping free over $50 to Australia. I know I would shut my shop down in that case and few of my products go to Australia so that is not very fair.

The best option is an alternative shipping option that is cheaper(in my case even more expensive would be better then using UPS) and make us sign a waver that they are not responsible for lost packages sent by any method other then UPS(or other trackible options).

Ideally you know the dimensions of the package. Offer buble envelope on packages that would fit in 20mm envelope(so 15mm wide). Also you can offer different shipping options based on where people are.

North America:
USPS Envelope($3)
USPS International Small Flat Rate Box($12)
UPS($6.50)

To the rest of the world. I don't know what is available. These USPS priceses are based on what anyone in the US could get. You may be able to do better. $12 USPS flat rate box is not much cheaper then $16.50 UPS($6.50 +$10 at the door) but it would be nice and some products could use envelopes.


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Re: New price structure [message #36316 is a reply to message #34810 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 11:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I think the 3% charge on mark-ups is to cover the paypal transaction fee cost.

But any additional charges would not be ok with me as a designer. The markup is already way lower compared to other sales channels/retail.

I assume profits for Shapeways come form a minor portion of the handling and printing fees.

[Updated on: Mon, 10 October 2011 12:00 UTC]


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Re: New price structure [message #36317 is a reply to message #36316 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 11:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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it is. My point is they can't raise it to cover shipping and be reasonable.


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Re: New price structure [message #36318 is a reply to message #36317 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 12:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Let's put the shoe on the other foot.

(hypothetically)
I am selling an item on eBay.
My item cost me $20 and I want to make $5 profit.
Costs involved.
- eBay selling fee $3
- PayPal fee $0.90
- Packaging $1.00
- Insured, tracked shipping to Australia $13

You can see the overall cost to the customer is $42.90

How can I make the item cheaper for the customer?

Re: New price structure [message #36324 is a reply to message #36318 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 14:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar B1lancer  is currently offline B1lancer
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If Shapeways have changed the prices to more accurately reflect the actual costs does that mean if I order a large and heavy item I pay more postage to reflect the increase in shipping costs for a large item? No?

Does this mean smaller items are now subsiding the postage of larger items?
Re: New price structure [message #36325 is a reply to message #36324 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 14:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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if you are big enough shipping companies will give you flat rate deals. so weight becomes irelivent. UPS knows that large heavy items almost never happen so they charge shapeways accordingly.

So are heavy items subsidicing light ones? No because everything probably falls in the same weight class. And if you order something out of the weight class the per cc charge will more then make up for the lose on shipping. How much do you think a 100kg steel print would cost? Steel is probably worst case senareo for cc/kg cost.

[Updated on: Mon, 10 October 2011 14:38 UTC]


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Re: New price structure [message #36327 is a reply to message #36324 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 15:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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B1lancer wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 14:28

If Shapeways have changed the prices to more accurately reflect the actual costs does that mean if I order a large and heavy item I pay more postage to reflect the increase in shipping costs for a large item? No?

Does this mean smaller items are now subsiding the postage of larger items?


I just had a quick check of the boxes I've still got. The labelled Ship Weight is 0.5kg on all of them (including the larger boxes). For me sending the same 0.5kg package by Royal Mail's Airsure service (trackable with signature - equivalent to UPS) to a European destination, the cost would be ~$17 (+VAT) & Shapeways charges just $9.50 (+VAT) for the same service.

Shapeways have not announced any pricing to reflect heavier packages and whether or not light weight packages are subsidising heavy packages is not really relevant as the announced shipping prices are flat rate per order.

Obviously the best way to take advantage of these pricing changes is to add more models to each order and spread the shipping cost over the amount of models... I can see it being better for me to create a market for an item, bulk order and ship out as neccessary to give my customers the best deal. A bit of a diversion from 'manufactured on demand' I know, but it seems to be the way forward. Done the right way, I can sprue models together to make savings to help offset the cost of shipping.

Call me an optimist if you like, but I like to think I'm pragmatic and just go with the flow... adapt to survive and all that Smile

[Updated on: Mon, 10 October 2011 15:04 UTC]

Re: New price structure [message #36329 is a reply to message #34810 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 15:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Info on shipping from another 3D printing service in Europe. Prices effective July '11 and I believe still current.

------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------
Important to mention is that you have the choice of 2 the shipping services for deliveries in Europe.
UPS express Saver delivers in Europe the next day after shipment, UPS standard takes about 1 to 3 days in Europe.
Outside Europe, we always ship with UPS express Saver.
(My italics)

When your order exceeds the 99 euro/99$, the default shipping method is for free.

UPS Standard E6.19 (approx US$8.66)
UPS Express Saver E8.76 (approx US$12.26)

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------

So, three important things there; one, the average purchaser pays MORE for shipping, the long-distance buyer pays LESS for shipping and the incentive to BUY more is a 99 Euro OR Dollar minimum purchase.

This plan would actually hurt me (I fall in the average purchaser category) but would benefit how many more on Shapeways? How many non-US/Europe customers are there? (Likely to be a lot less if SW keeps the new shipping prices).

Glenn





Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: New price structure [message #36331 is a reply to message #36327 ] Mon, 10 October 2011 15:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to previous message
avatar B1lancer  is currently offline B1lancer
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stop4stuff wrote on Mon, 10 October 2011 15:00


Call me an optimist if you like, but I like to think I'm pragmatic and just go with the flow... adapt to survive and all that Smile




Trouble is I can't, it's just not financially possible for me to do so. The only way for me to continue would be to bundle models to avoid the handling charges for each one, but this is classed as "abuse". So there seems little I can do.

It's like throwing a human into a vacuum chamber and as their eyeballs pop out saying "adapt to survive".

Regards,

Jack

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