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Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35966] Wed, 05 October 2011 17:51 UTC Go to next message
avatar ana  is currently offline ana
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Ok, let's continue here!


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Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35967 is a reply to message #35966 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 17:53 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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Simple recap. No ecomerse sites use(or at least I do not know any) a shortened description in the product page itself. Why does shapeways think this would be better.

A short description would be great if showing multiple items on the same page.


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Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35968 is a reply to message #35966 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 18:31 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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I think Ana has take note of our feedback and requests, so let's try to use this thread to assist people in presenting their items in the best light until the dev team can meet us halfway on the format.

My intro description is roughly as follows:

First sentence: State the models title and what category of object it represents, including at least one descriptive word that hopefully brings some positive associations. If the product has a characteristic that distinguishes it from usual examples of that type, state it here, separated by a comma.

Second sentence: Describes function, basic usage, or appearance. Ideally, as much of this as possible should also be apparent from looking at the clear, well-lit, tightly-cropped photograph of the printed product.

Inspiration, instructions, sizing, buying info, etc should be in the extended description. You can keep the sections separate by adding line breaks ("<br>" tags). Here is an example:
index.php?t=getfile&id=11298&private=0


Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35970 is a reply to message #35968 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 18:51 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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first off, imo, the model title should be above the picture... if ppl scan the at least they'll have half a clue what they're looking at.

soz off topic
Sad

[edit] actually Aaron, the way your example reads, it is a functioning item and possibly open to legal stuff (TV adverts don't have hidden text telling the truth)

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2011 18:54 UTC]

Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35972 is a reply to message #35966 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 19:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar cadalu  is currently offline cadalu
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I use truncated descriptions for all of my ecommerce clients, they're certainly the trend right now. For my clients I generally show about a paragraph and then I'll have the more info link. Actually for ecommerce I usually organize information via tabs but same theory.

Looking at Aaron's nifty screenshot, it looks like his description just vanished into space. I think a "read more" link directly after the cutoff would be more helpful in addition to the more info link on the bottom.

Different products also require different description lengths. If I'm on a site that sells only books or beads, I know what I'm getting. On shapeways, half the time I have no idea what I'm looking out. Razz

If I'm scanning, as customers do, I'm not even going to see the more info link. I'd certainly consider minimizing the line height and making the link more prominent. Just my $0.02 while I'm waiting for Blender to boolean.
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35978 is a reply to message #35972 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 19:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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cadalu, a couple of questions

Are truncated descriptions trendy because that's the way it is done, what the (website) customer wants, what is percieved as the most informative for the prospective purchaser or something else?

And, are the truncated descriptions written by a professional...erm... 'truncator' or the seller of the items?

just curious

cheers,
Paul
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35986 is a reply to message #35966 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 20:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aegidian  is currently offline aegidian
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It seems SW want truncated descriptions because they are trendy and rather than limit us to 140 characters they prefer to limit the pixel space for descriptions arbitrarily.

It's dumb because the model description page's purpose is to present the information a customer needs about a model, not a summary or shortened version of that information.

SW!=Twitter.
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35987 is a reply to message #35967 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 20:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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mctrivia wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 17:53

Simple recap. No ecomerse sites use(or at least I do not know any) a shortened description in the product page itself.

Have a close look at Ebay
You see a title, short description (sometimes), photo, current price, 'Place Bid' button and a whole lot of less interesting stuff. If you are interested enough to want a description then you have to scroll down and the description is in one of two or three tab on the second screen as you scroll down.


Bill Bedford
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35988 is a reply to message #35966 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 21:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar cadalu  is currently offline cadalu
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@stop4stuff - It's a mix.

Truncating works, research shows that customers don't want to read long text, scroll, hunt, click or do anything at all. The research/statistics into customer behavior is actually terrifying.

On the other hand the more content you have, the better your seo results so it makes sense to shorten content into manageable segments.

BUT - it's usually over used for ad placement. Everyone (including the big box retailers) want their ads at that prime time eyeline so it's a race to cram and condense as much info into above the fold as possible.

It's also a trend. I remember when there was a great call for scripts to summarize blog content, rss feeds, and all the social networking media that followed. Add to that the minimalist trends of Apple and other giants and you get the current climate.

So yes I recommend it to my clients for e-commerce functionality and they request it so they can look like the big guys. Smile , For my ecommerce clients I usually write a script so the client easily controls what information shows in the short description rather than truncating at an arbitrary character or pixel limit. I may set and outlier character amount to preserve other template features but I like my clients to have the control. Different products may require additional info like sizes, colors, styles etc.

So I'm all for shortening the info, but just not the way it's currently being employed by SW.

Sheesh, I can't spell today, sorry!

[Updated on: Wed, 05 October 2011 21:12 UTC]

Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35990 is a reply to message #35988 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 21:15 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aegidian  is currently offline aegidian
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cadalu wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 21:09


So I'm all for shortening the info, but just not the way it's currently being employed by SW.

Agreed. But I assert it's my choice as the artist who created the model to choose the length of the description I choose to sell the model.

In other words, if I want to use a shorter description to drive more sales, then I'll do that - but if I need or choose to use a longer description I'd rather SW didn't interfere with that.
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35991 is a reply to message #35988 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 21:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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@cadalu, thank you for the info, how things have changed!
So now, comes the cruncher... when will the likes of google penalise (again) web pages that have hidden (i.e. non-readable) text?

@Bill, with eBay, the description is on the item page... additional payment & postage information for the item might be a click away... as it happens the item title is the top-most text on the item page (aside from the usual ebay stuff)

Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35994 is a reply to message #35966 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 21:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar virtox  is currently offline virtox
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I can understand the limitation of the description and found it a challenge to adapt my descriptions to match better into the new look and feel.

It does challenge us to make a fitting description in only a few lines or to invite people to click the more link.

index.php?t=getfile&id=11304&private=0


But currently it IS still too limited imho.
And I also agree with the more info below white space issue.

Perhaps let the shop owners define the first paragraph via <p> </p> ?
The preference would be to show the contents of that paragraph fully.
Unless it exceeds a certain maximum number of lines/pixel height.

But this way if we want a one or six liner the "more info" could always follow the last line.

Regarding Aaron's example, I find his text is actually very clever, as nothing told there is a lie nor hiding a real truth Smile

  • Attachment: gyro.jpg
    (Size: 40.30KB, Downloaded 254 time(s))


- Artist / Engineer / Designer / Shopowner / Volunteer / Moderator -
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35995 is a reply to message #35991 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 21:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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stop4stuff wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 21:22

@Bill, with eBay, the description is on the item page... additional payment & postage information for the item might be a click away... as it happens the item title is the top-most text on the item page (aside from the usual ebay stuff)


Yep, but it's not on the first screen, i.e. you don't see it until you decide that the page is interesting enough to scroll down and find out more, rather than going to another page.



Bill Bedford
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35996 is a reply to message #35994 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 21:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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virtox wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 21:35

I can understand the limitation of the description and found it a challenge to adapt my descriptions to match better into the new look and feel.


True though what is not shown could be very miss leading and if anyone lawyers come a knocking about false advertising I will send them to shapeways.

Here is a perfect example: Planetary Die

I just noticed today though my description is accurate shapeways cut off the vital information that the gears do not work. I know one person has ordered this die since the changes were put in effect and zero before so it is possible this customer will be very unhappy. So what does this gain shapeways? WE have an unhappy customer that will likely never come back, shapeways will have to refund them because it is there fault that they were advertising it falsely, possibly have to refund tax, and customs to keep customer from thretening legal against them. And I lose a possible valued customer and most likely the markup from this sale. So in total a huge negative for a very short term gain.


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Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35998 is a reply to message #35995 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 22:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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BillBedford wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 21:39

stop4stuff wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 21:22

@Bill, with eBay, the description is on the item page... additional payment & postage information for the item might be a click away... as it happens the item title is the top-most text on the item page (aside from the usual ebay stuff)


Yep, but it's not on the first screen, i.e. you don't see it until you decide that the page is interesting enough to scroll down and find out more, rather than going to another page.





Not sure what ebay you're looking at, but for me, I search for an item, click on the item in the search results, and the item page description and all is there... i might have to scroll down the page to view all of the text, but no clicking or page changing involved, just a drag of the wheel on my mouse, or if my hand is over the keyboard, tap the page down or down cursor button whereas the full text of the description on the Shapeways model page is, look at screen, find [more info], move mouse pointer, then click and if the description falls off the bottom of the page, I still need to scroll down to read it all. Ebay page = simple, Shapeways page = more effort involved than simple

Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #35999 is a reply to message #35998 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 22:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar mctrivia  is currently offline mctrivia
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i think he is looking at the page listing a whole bunch of stuff. That page has truncated results but that is where truncated results should be used. not on a product page.

I don't think a 1997 article about newspaper on the web is a good source for best practices in 2011


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Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #36003 is a reply to message #35999 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 23:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bluelinegecko  is currently offline bluelinegecko
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I feel the entire description should be available (or at the least a lot more than what we are currently given). The designer of the model should have the freedom to decide how they wish to describe their art. If a potential customer loses interest right away they will stop reading. If they don't they will continue. Personally, I feel it is a bit presumptuous to assume what the attention span of our customers is.
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #36004 is a reply to message #35999 ] Wed, 05 October 2011 23:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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mctrivia wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 22:22

i think he is looking at the page listing a whole bunch of stuff. That page has truncated results but that is where truncated results should be used. not on a product page.

Where is any description on this page?
index.php?t=getfile&id=11305&private=0



Bill Bedford
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #36006 is a reply to message #36004 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 00:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Bathsheba  is currently offline Bathsheba
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Ana, I appreciate the explanation of your reasoning, but I don't agree with it across the board, and I would appreciate it more if you let us decide with what size description to sell our own products. I have some experience selling mine, and when I want a very short description, I write one.

Sometimes I punch it up with line breaks.

Which your current setup does not treat kindly.

Some items are best sold with a tweet, but others are nichey or nerdy, selling only to people who are not afraid of blocks of text, and need that information to know that they're interested.

I am the only person who knows which are which.

Eight lines is a very reasonable compromise.

Please reconsider.


-Bathsheba
http://bathsheba.com
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #36008 is a reply to message #36004 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 00:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum is currently online stannum
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That ebay page has the description not visible yet. It starts to be visible in taller screens or with smaller fonts, or with easy user action. So agreed that order for info matters, nobody seems to be asking for putting things randomly.

Each site has different means to provide that information. A new page after a click is one... and really slow: aim at target, click, wait for new page to load and render. SW is going with slightly faster method: aim at target, click. Ebay, Amazon and other places have a faster one, the extra info just goes below. Aiming at scroll bars is faster because they are bigger than a "More info" controls, while more common options of rolling the mouse wheel or pressing space are even faster as they rely on physical items, not tiny virtual targets (which to add insult to injury, sometimes require scrolling anyway).

Bathsheba wrote a nice explanation, by the way.
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #36012 is a reply to message #35966 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 02:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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Paul! Are you implying that the Hyperbolic Projector does not work as advertised? I am terribly offended and I will not stand for these slanders against my fine products! The efficacy of the device is supported by extensive evidence. I have voluminous quanitities of carefully executed research resulting in reams of data, all consistent with my description, that a single unit is able to "confuse and disorient" with nearly instant, devastating results. My agents have unleashed this technology on unsuspecting members of the public in a variety of settings, and I assure you it worked perfectly in every case.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7733/hyperbolicprojectoraim.jpg

Most of the information is still highly classified, as releasing it might betray the exact nature of its function. Who knows what might happen if it were to fall into the wrong hands! I will share one sliver of indisputable proof that I trust will remain between you and me and the internet.

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5469/hyperbolicprojectorreac.jpg

Look at this guy. This result, captured with a high-speed camera, was obtained a mere fraction of a second after deployment. He clearly has no idea what is going on.


Mission Accomplished.




Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #36017 is a reply to message #36012 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 06:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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@Aaron, lol... you have a good point, The Hyperbolic Projector most certainly looks like it works as advertised!

@Bill, the description on that ebay page is below what you show, a simple scroll away, using either a mouse click in the blank area of the lower the scroll bar (shown on the right), the scroll wheel on a mouse, the page down button or the down cursor button... four methods to view the description that are each easier than the method employed by Shapeways.

Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #36020 is a reply to message #36017 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 07:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pfeiffer stylez  is currently offline pfeiffer stylez
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Usually, I don't write much in the description... 2-4 sentences in 2-3 paragraphs.

1st paragraph: name & purpose
2nd paragraph: informations about the example in the default picture (if it´s a photo)
3rd paragraph: special informations about the model

Example

In my opinion, the last paragraph (with the information that the model is hollow) is important, and shouldn't be hidden under a "more info" button.


Okay, since the place for the description text might be abused for ads or whatever, it might be necessary to limit that space. Probably it's actually a good idea...
But 5 (narrow) lines ? Confused

Like Bathsheba, I request for a limit of 8 lines.
(10 would be better, but 8 would be ok for me.)


Re: Shop Descriptions and the "More Info" button [message #36055 is a reply to message #35966 ] Thu, 06 October 2011 16:39 UTC Go to previous message
avatar Bunrattypark  is currently offline Bunrattypark
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I am selling scale model buses. Typically, there are four to eight variations available for one particular model type. So for example, one type of bus may come with one door, two doors, ladders, no ladders, different destination displays or number of seats, etc. My customers are looking for a particular combination of these characteristics.

I have demonstrated the main variations as a series of bullet points in the description, but these variations are vital, and it would be nice if they appeared immediately on the model page below the image, rather than requiring another click, which some of my customers may miss.

Truncating the description serves my model pages no purpose whatsoever. None of my models will have a long winded description, they will have a brief and concise description, which I would prefer the option to put there in full view under the image.

 
   
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