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More rendered images being promoted [message #35639] Sun, 02 October 2011 04:20 UTC Go to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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I have already commented in another thread about Shapeways promoting models on Tumblr.com where the store only shows RENDERED IMAGES with no actual printed product shown anywhere.....

Now, at the time of writing, there are two more featured items on the SW home page that again only have rendered images.

WHY ?!!

Shapeways has forever been telling us how important it is to have our models printed and photographed in order to help promote the items.

So what, you ask? Well the previous case I mentioned caused the store owner to have to "close" part of his store because he hadn't taken proper care to follow SW printing guidelines. So, SW had been promoting a product that may well have generated sales and NOW will be followed up with "Sorry, we can't print this" emails. THIS sort of thing affects us all because the customer comes off thinking of SW as being at best too far ahead of its time and, at worst, well, really a rather Mickey Mouse company.

With the recent increase in cost in printing what incentive is there to pay Shapeways to print our models so we can photograph them? I might as well produce a ton of models and brush up on my 3D rendering techniques.... and to hell with whether they can be printed or not.

I would like to see Shapeways introduce a policy where NO product will be promoted within Shapeways domain if the ONLY images of the model are renders and not actual photographs...

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35693 is a reply to message #35639 ] Sun, 02 October 2011 14:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hey Glenn.

Thanks for bringing this up, yes, we do prefer photographed items and usually feature only those that we know have been successfully 3D printed. Both cases you refer to are very popular items that have been successfully 3D printed, but are represented by renders. We also prefer that an item is for sale, but occasionally we will feature item that is not for sale if it is really exciting. We usually prefer to post 'finished products' that require no post processing by the buyer but we do also feature these if they show outstanding potential. We also feature items that require third party components to complete the design, be they pencils, electronics, etc. if they are well presented concepts that prove popular among buyers.

We will continue to support those who produce great designs, that are well presented and for sale in the Shapeways shops, occasionally we will be a little flexible, but if anyone would like their products featured, be sure to post them in the It Arrived forum. If we see a lot of interest in a product from a third party site, we will contact the designer (as we have in the past) and help them to make the most of the attention by helping them translate the attention into sales for them.

To answer your request, "I would like to see Shapeways introduce a policy where NO product will be promoted within Shapeways domain if the ONLY images of the model are renders and not actual photographs..."
would you prefer it if a product could not be listed until you personally have had it 3D printed by Shapeways only, then it could be ordered in only the material it had been previously printed by you in, and had submitted a photograph? This could quickly become a very expensive exercise to get a product live on Shapeways in multiple materials. This is not something I would personally like to see as it is a barrier to innovation.

Perhaps it would be better if we had a different way of differentiating between printed, printable and conceptual models? Perhaps if Shapeways had a way of confirming printability in X materials at upload, Perhaps a way of ranking items by the number of times printed with positive feedback by buyers? How else can we define quality rather than simply saying a render cannot be the representative of a product. If we get some REALLY good renders, how could we tell?

Thanks again for bringing it up.

I am keen to hear your thoughts.



Duann Scott, Designer Evangelist, Shapeways
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35695 is a reply to message #35693 ] Sun, 02 October 2011 15:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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duann wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 14:29

We also feature items that require third party components to complete the design, be they pencils, electronics, etc. if they are well presented concepts that prove popular among buyers.


No problem with that...

duann wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 14:29


would you prefer it if a product could not be listed until you personally have had it 3D printed by Shapeways only, then it could be ordered in only the material it had been previously printed by you in, and had submitted a photograph?



No, that's not what I'm saying at all. At least if it's printed in ONE material there is a better possible chance that it will print in another. AND it shows the designer has invested time and money into the effort and not just thrown up rendered images.

duann wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 14:29


Perhaps it would be better if we had a different way of differentiating between printed, printable and conceptual models?


YES, please.

duann wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 14:29


Perhaps if Shapeways had a way of confirming printability in X materials at upload,


My God, YES. That would be every designer's dream - to KNOW as soon as the model is uploaded that it will print in all materials listed. The sooner we can get away from those "Sorry, we can't print that" emails AFTER a model is ordered by a customer, the better it will be.

duann wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 14:29


Perhaps a way of ranking items by the number of times printed with positive feedback by buyers? How else can we define quality rather than simply saying a render cannot be the representative of a product. If we get some REALLY good renders, how could we tell?



-Do many buyers give feedback? Not really interested in getting into the whole ranking issue right now...

-Number of times printed in X material would help.

I think the main point that would help is for a buyer to know that it has been printed successfully be that through photographs or notifications.

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35721 is a reply to message #35695 ] Sun, 02 October 2011 20:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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OK Glenn,

Thanks for the feedback, I will add these points to our wish list, some will be addressed much sooner than others Wink



Duann Scott, Designer Evangelist, Shapeways
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35735 is a reply to message #35639 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 03:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar CGD  is currently offline CGD
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lensman:

I used to support your point of showcasing photos of printed models. But not now, because:

1. Shapeways charges shipping fee, even for ordering test prints;
2. Models used to be printable can suddenly become unprintable. So the photo of the once printed model means nothing!

CGD
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35736 is a reply to message #35721 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 03:13 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dkrentz  is currently offline dkrentz
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It doesn't help that a great many materials that are commonly used for detail are very hard to photogrPh. WSF is hard and WD is harder. Models are hollow UFD look like a gelatinous blob when photographed. I always spray paint the models grey, but then that's not really showing the customer what they are getting.

I have suggested a Light Grey Detaila material a few times now. That would be a pretty good standard for the plastic buyers.

Black detail is OK to photograph, but still not ideal.

D
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35768 is a reply to message #35735 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 12:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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CGD wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 03:04

lensman:

I used to support your point of showcasing photos of printed models. But not now, because:

1. Shapeways charges shipping fee, even for ordering test prints;
2. Models used to be printable can suddenly become unprintable. So the photo of the once printed model means nothing!

CGD


Number 2 is an especially valid point. I had a pendant made and printed in s/steel that had a moveable bail. Customers ordered it and print was rejected; I got emails from SW saying that there was a thin wall issue... Re-modelled and more orders placed from customers... More thin wall errors... Then I finally realised it was because of the moveable part that I was getting the rejections - although that was never conveyed to me.

And like so many other people I have had many more models rejected as unprintable once ordered by a customer, even if I had them printed in another material before...

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35769 is a reply to message #35639 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 12:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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@lensman

If it's your livelihood perhaps it is a good idea to invest in ordering your model, taking quality photos , promote it on forums, blogs, tweeter, YouTube .. even purchase targeted traffic from Google if your model converts well ..

BUT if its just a hobby ... well..















http://www.3Dizingof.com


Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35770 is a reply to message #35769 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 13:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Hey guys,

YES, wsf is really hard to photograph, but I recently heard that using HDR photos REALLY works.. I will experiment a little and let you know how it goes..



Duann Scott, Designer Evangelist, Shapeways
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35771 is a reply to message #35770 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 13:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar CGD  is currently offline CGD
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duann wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 13:04

Hey guys,

YES, wsf is really hard to photograph, but I recently heard that using HDR photos REALLY works.. I will experiment a little and let you know how it goes..





If only I have a HDR camera...

Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35772 is a reply to message #35771 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 13:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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I think it can be done with a HDR app on an iPhone..



Duann Scott, Designer Evangelist, Shapeways
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35776 is a reply to message #35639 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 15:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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It helps to photograph WSF on a white background, so that the exposure is even all around, making HDR unnecessary. I use a mix of directional and diffuse lighting, usually a window on one side and incandescent light from above. That also gives a color variation and shadowing that provides additional depth cues. For extra deep shadows, do a histogram equalization and blend it 50% with the original.

Photographs are not meaningless, they do show printability, functionality, scale, actual appearance, and that some thought has gone into development. The sudden unprintability thing is over because the producers are figuring out what types of models consistently cause problems. Unfortunately they often figured that out only after trying several times to print the first copy, so better communication would help here. That won't stop someone from offering a model in an inappropriate material, but it is the designers responsibility to make sure, by testing, that their design actually works before selling it.


Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35779 is a reply to message #35772 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 15:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tessman  is currently offline tessman
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Yes, Wikipedia says,

HDR photography functionality was added to the iPhone 4 in iOS version 4.1 on September 8th 2010
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35782 is a reply to message #35771 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 16:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar DarrenAbbey  is currently offline DarrenAbbey
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Take a series of photos with different exposure settings, which can then be combined digitally to make the HDR image.

Using a tripod, take three images. 1 regular, 1 short, & 1 long exposure. With a dSLR this is easily done by using exposure bracketing. Other camera systems which allow some user control of settings should have equivalent functions.

Combining the images can be done using various software. I use a set of custom scripts I wrote for GIMP.
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35783 is a reply to message #35782 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 16:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar DarrenAbbey  is currently offline DarrenAbbey
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I just realized I have some WSF models sitting around that I can use to work up a small tutorial later today.
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #35804 is a reply to message #35769 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 19:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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dizingof wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 12:38

@lensman

If it's your livelihood perhaps it is a good idea to invest in ordering your model, taking quality photos , promote it on forums, blogs, tweeter, YouTube .. even purchase targeted traffic from Google if your model converts well ..

BUT if its just a hobby ... well.


It's a combination hobby / part-time business...

And I do order and photograph my items when I can. I do have some models that only show renders mainly because I can't afford to order them. Then again, I don't expect Shapeways to promote them, either, so when I see rendered models promoted that irks me...

Glenn














[/quote]

[Updated on: Mon, 03 October 2011 19:29 UTC]


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
HDR Photography tutorial [message #35822 is a reply to message #35804 ] Mon, 03 October 2011 23:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar duann  is currently offline duann
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Darren,

I would love to see a HDR tutorial..

Cheers



Duann Scott, Designer Evangelist, Shapeways
Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #38558 is a reply to message #35639 ] Mon, 14 November 2011 21:14 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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http://www.shapeways.com/model/322389/

as featured on http://www.shapeways.com/gifts/#

would all that detail show in such a small size in stainless?
and the same model is available in all materials... glass? really?

Re: More rendered images being promoted [message #38582 is a reply to message #38558 ] Mon, 14 November 2011 23:35 UTC Go to previous message
avatar ana  is currently offline ana
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Hey guys,

I checked into this, and Paul is right. We've since removed it from the gift guide.


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