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Metal Casting [message #8196] Thu, 10 December 2009 12:27 UTC Go to next message
avatar {DF}  is currently offline {DF}
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I 've been looking recently for a technique to transfer my Shapeways 3D prints in metal without printing directly in stainless steel, but instead, using metal casting. Printing directly in stainless steel goes very expensive and it is very difficult to take advantage of the final product.

So, I followed this forum post regarding new Shapeways materials. Wax was my suggestion in order to give the printed wax model to a foundry for metal process.

I also saw another forum post by Zorink, who used the White Strong and Flexible material instead of wax.

Similar to Zorink, I have a Dutch sculptor friend, Barbara Perquin, who uses a special metal casting technique to produce her sculptures. Here is what she does: She usually takes a real branch of a tree and gives it to a foundry. The foundry behaves to that branch as it would be wax and melts metal on it. As a result, the branch burns and is replaced by the metal.

I think this is a technique that worths a further exploration. What I mean is, that we can explore any special requirements for this kind of metal casting, like wall thickness etc.


http://shpws.me/DWg
Re: Metal Casting [message #8269 is a reply to message #8196 ] Sat, 12 December 2009 16:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pete  is currently offline pete
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Hi guys,

we will look into wax printing.
Can we start a poll here, how many of you are interested?

What would max dimensions need to be (smaller is less expensive).

best regards,
Peter
Re: Metal Casting [message #8285 is a reply to message #8269 ] Sat, 12 December 2009 19:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar photosfromrob  is currently offline photosfromrob
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I'm interested...for jewelry I could live with 8cm

sculpture is another story

let's start with jewelry...
Re: Metal Casting [message #8303 is a reply to message #8196 ] Sun, 13 December 2009 14:23 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar {DF}  is currently offline {DF}
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Thanx Peter Smile

At the moment, I will give a WSF or White detail model and keep you updated with my result when ready.

Wax of course, would be better for a metal cast. It is the native material for metal casting.

Normally, wax should be cheaper than the WSF for 3D print. I am not sure however. All I can say is that the dimensions should be similar to the White detail (49x39x20cm) or Cream Robust (35x40x40cm), according to Shapeways Material Options

I am interested.


http://shpws.me/DWg
Re: Metal Casting [message #8312 is a reply to message #8303 ] Mon, 14 December 2009 01:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar crsdfr  is currently offline crsdfr
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Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but couldn't you make a mold of your WSF piece in order to make a Wax master?

Obviously it would only work for shapes that don't have undercuts etc, but there's no reason you couldn't mold these pieces separately and join them together before the actual casting.

This would ensure your burn out happens perfectly for the casting stage.

Again, I have little knowledge in the area, any feedback would be appreciated - I've long wanted to try this.
Re: Metal Casting [message #8317 is a reply to message #8312 ] Mon, 14 December 2009 13:17 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar locodan  is currently offline locodan
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I use a rubber for molds and vulcanize temperature is about 300 deg F. The only material that can take this temperature right now is stainless.

A silicone mold could be made with any of the plastics and I have considered this as an option.

You can get away with small undercuts as the mold is flexable.

Wax gives the designer the option of hollow cast objects, which is not so simple with rubber molds.

[Updated on: Mon, 14 December 2009 13:18 UTC]

Re: Metal Casting [message #8330 is a reply to message #8312 ] Tue, 15 December 2009 02:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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The brand behind WSF, EOS, has a PolyStyrene material for this. I found some slides explaining how it works look for PrimeCast, page 16 and next. This material could work for "toys" too (I think some miniatures/toys are just that, PS), and then just require a similar finishing like in the PDF, but with glue or putty instead of wax, to get a smooth surface. Probably the wax trick could also be useful with WSF, by the way.
Re: Metal Casting [message #8359 is a reply to message #8196 ] Wed, 16 December 2009 23:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Mark_Kendrick  is currently offline Mark_Kendrick
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i'm interested in wax for investment casting, I wouldn't need anything much larger than 100Lx80Wx80H mm for what I do, but i can see the model engineer/live steam guys being very interested in this, and they require parts a bit bigger, maybe 200x200x150mm.
Re: Metal Casting [message #8360 is a reply to message #8317 ] Wed, 16 December 2009 23:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Mark_Kendrick  is currently offline Mark_Kendrick
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Dan, whilst the companies generally don't recommend it, I have had ABS FDM parts used as masters for vulcanised spin cast moulds successfully.
In the photo below, you can see the yellow RPd master and some whitemetal castings of the same. (The master was made using a Dimension FDM machine at my uni, not at Shapeways)

index.php?t=getfile&id=2065&private=0
BTW Dan I look forward to seeing some Shay parts Smile
-Mark

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Re: Metal Casting [message #8362 is a reply to message #8360 ] Thu, 17 December 2009 00:51 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar locodan  is currently offline locodan
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Mark, it is nice to see other model train stuff. I saw your Shay stack and a refference to the Mapleton Shay. I just got my first wheel center for the 7/8" scale Mapleton Shay project I am working on and a bunch more stuff will get to me tomorrow.

I checked on silicone rubber vulcanizing temperature and they make a low temperature silicone for printed patterns see: http://www.castaldo.com/english/usinprod/objet_vlt_article/o bjet_vlt_article.html

Wax will still be very handy as I am a small scale live steamer and steam engine cylinders need internal passages and a smooth bore. As Shapeways will make every wax pattern for metal casters that want hollow objects or fine detail, I hope that it makes sense. It will give model engineers a real chance to make very accurate scale versions of the real thing.
Dan

Re: Metal Casting [message #8370 is a reply to message #8269 ] Thu, 17 December 2009 14:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Stephen.Tarheel  is currently offline Stephen.Tarheel
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I'm very interested in this as it'd open up a LOT of possibilities for me.

Like everyone else (I think) I could live with 100mm x 80mm x 80mm very well.
Re: Metal Casting [message #8371 is a reply to message #8269 ] Thu, 17 December 2009 17:15 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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pete wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 16:27

Hi guys,

we will look into wax printing.
Can we start a poll here, how many of you are interested?
I've got lots of things I'd like cast from waxes....

Quote:

What would max dimensions need to be (smaller is less expensive).

At least 160 mm long, minimum wall, less than 1mm.

But please not a Solidscape machine. They produce very good waxes but are slow and therefore expensive.


Bill Bedford
Re: Metal Casting [message #8422 is a reply to message #8371 ] Sat, 19 December 2009 16:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pete  is currently offline pete
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Okay looks like quite a few have interest in Wax printing. We will keep you posted....
Peter
Re: Metal Casting [message #8512 is a reply to message #8422 ] Wed, 23 December 2009 13:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar {DF}  is currently offline {DF}
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I believe there are LOTS of people interested in wax printing.
Do not decide by this forum post and only...

If you make a poll on the front page, or somewhere else on the site, more visible to visitors, you will get better results on this I think...


http://shpws.me/DWg
Re: Metal Casting [message #8987 is a reply to message #8269 ] Fri, 15 January 2010 13:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar derekh  is currently offline derekh
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pete wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 16:27

Hi guys,

we will look into wax printing.
Can we start a poll here, how many of you are interested?

What would max dimensions need to be (smaller is less expensive).

best regards,
Peter


I am definitely interested.

For most of my items dimensions could be under 3cm x 3cm x 3cm and I would be thrilled.
Re: Metal Casting [message #8994 is a reply to message #8987 ] Fri, 15 January 2010 19:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar sFsGaming  is currently offline sFsGaming
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Bigger is better for me, but I would LOVE to be able to buy wax prints!
Re: Metal Casting [message #19150 is a reply to message #8994 ] Fri, 15 October 2010 12:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar baltimore  is currently offline baltimore
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wax please!


www.Custom3dStuff.com
Re: Metal Casting [message #20313 is a reply to message #8269 ] Wed, 10 November 2010 12:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar unellenu  is currently offline unellenu
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I'd love wax to be available as a material for jewellery. Size-wise up to 5 or 6 cm would probably suffice.


unellenu.com
Re: Metal Casting [message #21578 is a reply to message #8269 ] Mon, 13 December 2010 04:23 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Ray716  is currently offline Ray716
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SO VERY INTERESTED! Smile I would love to see some of my designs cast in Gold, As well as Pewter, Bronze and other things that i have access to.... Wax prints would ROCK Smile Also, my 3d modeling skills are not as good as my hand sculpture skills... So some modifications can be done quickly and easily to wax before they are cast.. This would be an awesome thing.

Ray


www.RayTomlinDesigns.com
Re: Metal Casting [message #23339 is a reply to message #21578 ] Wed, 02 February 2011 04:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar blinky  is currently offline blinky
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Also super interested in wax for jewellery!! Any word on this???
Re: Metal Casting [message #23344 is a reply to message #8196 ] Wed, 02 February 2011 07:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Cre83D  is currently offline Cre83D
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Yes, very interested!! Very Happy

Cheers Peter
Re: Metal Casting [message #24357 is a reply to message #8196 ] Tue, 01 March 2011 16:53 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar InterSimi  is currently offline InterSimi
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Very Interested


regards,

InterSimi
Re: Metal Casting [message #35374 is a reply to message #24357 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 01:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Tigermoth  is currently offline Tigermoth
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Has there been any update on this?
I had a bad experience with trying to cast FUD...the caster told me that instead of melting away it actually expands just before burnout, this causes the investment plaster to crack and flake, and the resulting cast is terrible.
He said he had printed WSF with no problem, however, as a jeweller, I would really like to go for something that has the highest resolution possible so yes, high res wax is a MUST for jewellers. Im amazed there hasn't been more call for this.

On a positive note, an alternative would be to print directly into sterling, I was VERY pleased with the one I did, .3mm detail was precise and clear...so why not just make a vulcanised rubber mold from the SS print? Sure it costs more that other shapeways materials, but when you think about it you are cutting out the middle man...and would probably pay close to the same if not more to have the wax made into SS at a casting house...
Re: Metal Casting [message #35382 is a reply to message #35374 ] Thu, 29 September 2011 09:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar BillBedford  is currently offline BillBedford
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Why not make a RTV mould from your FUD model?


Bill Bedford
Re: Metal Casting [message #35563 is a reply to message #35382 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 00:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Tigermoth  is currently offline Tigermoth
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Ill look into it Bill...not that familiar with the mold making process but was led to believe that the model needed to withstand the heat and pressure used in the process, also the surface material may play a part, I went to get a small bronze model molded but needed to have it gold plated before I could, as it would have stuck to the rubber or something.
Re: Metal Casting [message #35566 is a reply to message #8196 ] Sat, 01 October 2011 02:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar unellenu  is currently offline unellenu
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Hi,
I believe there is a cold mold process that should work for models in almost any material (this removes the problem of heat and pressure).
I haven't yet tried this process with any of my Shapeways models ( I have the intention but haven't yet made time for this)but I have in the past had cold molds made (by jewelry casting companies here in Australia) from some relatively fragile hand-sculpted, polymer clay, jewelry sized pieces .

Hope this helps.
Janelle.


unellenu.com
Re: Metal Casting [message #39024 is a reply to message #8196 ] Tue, 22 November 2011 02:26 UTC Go to previous message
avatar sFsGaming  is currently offline sFsGaming
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http://www.smooth-on.com

I read something on the forums here that FUD doesn't play well with silicone rubbers, though. I'll have to look into that as that's what I'm hoping to do with some of my prints.

Is there something that FUD can be coated with that will allow it to be used with silicone rubber without losing much detail?

 
   
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