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Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34305] Thu, 15 September 2011 20:26 UTC Go to next message
avatar nancyliang  is currently offline nancyliang
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A picture speak a thousand words right? Well, how about two pictures?

http://www.shapeways.com/blog/uploads/ZCSample_sm.jpg

http://www.shapeways.com/topics/udesign/design-rules/full_color_sandstone/turning.gif

Smile That's right! Upgrade to the Full Color Sandstone material!

Whiter whites, clearly definition in color, movable parts, and more. Read the official annoucement...

Nancy

PS. A big thanks to Stony & Magic for helping out with the material's research process. You guys rock!



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Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34309 is a reply to message #34305 ] Thu, 15 September 2011 21:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Looks very cool, especially the moving parts!

Just one question, is that right, minimum 2.5 x 2.5 x 2.5 CM? - that'll scupper my Eyes D6 Sad

Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34311 is a reply to message #34309 ] Thu, 15 September 2011 21:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar nancyliang  is currently offline nancyliang
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Yeah, I should mention two things to be aware of:

1) There is a minimum bounding box of 2.5x2.5x2.5 cm. This is because with the new method (dipping in CA), it is difficult to apply an even finish and hold the model for anything much smaller.

2) Hollow models need an escape hole of at least 2.5cm in diameter. This is so depowdering does not take a long time (long time = pricier model)

(for the rest please visit the new design rules page)

We are also considering doing something like a Premium Full Color Sandstone, which allows for smaller items, thinner walls, and all the things that you guys like. But the catch there is that there would be a really high labor fee, something like $20-30, maybe even more depending on how liberal we make the design rules.

Anyway, we will not be implementing the new design restrictions until next Friday. We want to give you some time to re-adjust your designs.

Hope that helps!

Nancy



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Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34312 is a reply to message #34305 ] Thu, 15 September 2011 22:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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Quote:


escape hole of at least 2.5cm in diameter



At first i thought it was a typo... 2.5cm? - isn't massive suction equipment involved with de-powdering?

2.5cm escape hole on a 5-10cm sculpture wont look good... especially if there is no base or a hidden surface for it.

On larger sized models maybe... but it would still be unaesthetic Confused


edit: i guess i need a clarification on "ratio to part" ?



[Updated on: Thu, 15 September 2011 22:24 UTC]


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34313 is a reply to message #34311 ] Thu, 15 September 2011 22:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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Minimum 25mm in all axis? All normal dice are out, so is Shapeways own keychain.

[Edit: typo]

[Updated on: Thu, 15 September 2011 22:29 UTC]

Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34314 is a reply to message #34313 ] Thu, 15 September 2011 22:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar nancyliang  is currently offline nancyliang
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That's a good point, let me get back to you. Maybe something like ceramics, where the dimensions add up to x cm? That allows for thin pieces and flat pieces that are smaller in one dimension but make up for it in other dimensions.



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Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34317 is a reply to message #34305 ] Fri, 16 September 2011 01:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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Nancy, a 2.5cm (one inch) hole sounds a touch excessive. As Mitchell pointed out on a previous post, it is far more helpful to have two small holes some distance apart than it is to have one big one, so that you can blow air into one hole and it comes out the other. Can we agree on some smaller number when using multiple drain holes? Something like 1.5cm for two holes and 1cm for at least four holes?


Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34319 is a reply to message #34314 ] Fri, 16 September 2011 01:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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Nancy, take a look at this model. http://shpws.me/KPG Each of the four peices is 15mm by 35mm, but they are only 3mm thick.

I assume that this means it'll be rejected by the new design rules? Is there any way to deal with such an item?


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34359 is a reply to message #34319 ] Fri, 16 September 2011 14:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar nancyliang  is currently offline nancyliang
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All right, we can change the min bounding box to one such that all dimensions have to add up to 6.5cm. This allows room for things like flat objects and poles. Huzzah!

Ok, let me see what I can do about the escape hole issue...



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Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34402 is a reply to message #34359 ] Fri, 16 September 2011 22:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar nancyliang  is currently offline nancyliang
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All right, you guys are good.

Escape Hole rule:
The basics is that we need to be able to get the sand out, to increase your chances of having a depowder-able design, we recommend that you do either:
- 2.5 cm for one hole
- 1.5 cm for two holes
- 1 cm for four holes

Note, even if you follow these rules there are always ways to make designs that are difficult to depowder. In short, keep this question in mind: if my structure was solid and filled out compact flour, would I be able to get everything out in a few minutes?

Enjoy! Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks,
Nancy



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Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34419 is a reply to message #34402 ] Sat, 17 September 2011 04:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Wizzard419  is currently offline Wizzard419
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Just a curiosity, with full color sandstone, can it print in any color of the rainbow or are there fixed limits?

I'm thinking of making an action figure of one of my models one day. Very Happy
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34427 is a reply to message #34313 ] Sat, 17 September 2011 08:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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stannum wrote on Thu, 15 September 2011 22:21

Minimum 25mm in all axis? All normal dice are out,
That kind of sucks really.

Also, why not make both full color sandstone finishes available as an option, for models that don't really care about whiteness, that need to be a bit stronger, or just don't want a super glue finish?


Kaetemi
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34436 is a reply to message #34427 ] Sat, 17 September 2011 10:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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Wizzard419: The color process here is the same as a dot matrix printer with CMYK ink. You get a full range of colors, but it's a lower DPI than you get with most home (paper) printers today.

I'm attaching three photos here. The first is the original artwork that I applied to the model, and then the old process compared to the new process. You can see that the colors are much better in the new process, but they're still not as vibrant as in the original artwork.

If you only knew how BAD I am at painting, you would understand how "good" even this new process looks to me. <grin>

[Updated on: Sat, 17 September 2011 10:41 UTC]


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34438 is a reply to message #34436 ] Sat, 17 September 2011 10:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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And now, a shot of the clockface printed in the new process:


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34491 is a reply to message #34438 ] Sat, 17 September 2011 18:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Wizzard419  is currently offline Wizzard419
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Hmmmm that just gave me an idea... I wonder how well they would work for pocket watch dials?
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34493 is a reply to message #34491 ] Sat, 17 September 2011 18:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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If you deal with the fact that the disk must be at least 2mm thick, this should work fine as pocket watch dials.

One option might be to sand the back side off after printing.. thereby making it thicker.


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34494 is a reply to message #34491 ] Sat, 17 September 2011 18:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Wizzard419 wrote on Sat, 17 September 2011 18:22

Hmmmm that just gave me an idea... I wonder how well they would work for pocket watch dials?


That'd be a big dial, 65mm minimum x + y + z dimensions... unless the dial is sat upon a post that can later be broken off Wink

Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34497 is a reply to message #34493 ] Sat, 17 September 2011 18:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Wizzard419  is currently offline Wizzard419
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the thickness wouldn't be too much of a problem, some dials are very close to that. I will have to mull that one over.
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34537 is a reply to message #34314 ] Sun, 18 September 2011 13:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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A Q for Nancy,

If moving parts are allowed, does that mean it is also ok to create multi-but-seperate-part models as long as all the parts fit the bounding box?

What I'm thinking of would be a model like an open square tube so it fits the requirements for cleaning and with a lid that is a seperate part. Would both parts individually need to be made to meet the bounding box requirements?

Cheers,
Paul
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #34772 is a reply to message #34402 ] Wed, 21 September 2011 09:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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nancyliang wrote on Fri, 16 September 2011 22:36


- 1.5 cm for two holes
Note, even if you follow these rules there are always ways to make designs that are difficult to depowder. In short, keep this question in mind: if my structure was solid and filled out compact flour, would I be able to get everything out in a few minutes?

Are tube holes < 1.5cm allowed? Those shouldn't be as hard to clean out as holes to large empty volumes. What would be the minimum then?
Also, is trapping powder still not allowed for FCS, or is that trick allowed again now?


Kaetemi
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #35253 is a reply to message #34305 ] Tue, 27 September 2011 14:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar AD-Edge  is currently offline AD-Edge
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Im also interested in the question posted above. Im about to print out my first FCS models to see how this new process works out, and have in the past printed hollow WSF models without a hole to drain the support material.
Hoping its ok to do this with FCS as well, huge benefit having hollow models which dont have to be ruined with holes all though them. I also dont mind the extra weight it adds. Cool



Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #35530 is a reply to message #35253 ] Fri, 30 September 2011 16:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Brian123  is currently offline Brian123
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Please explain the escape hole minimum, because the new guidline makes little sense to me. Hopefully I'm just misunderstanding.

Escape Hole minimum:
Absolute diameter or ratio to part: 2.5cm diameter


For example, you create a lifesize golf ball model,
how big will the escape hole need to be with a 2-3mm shell?


If one hole is 2.5cm, wouldn't that be like 1 inch? That seems excessive, almost like it really doesn't have a shell and just an open object, like the opening under a thimble.

Would removing powder from such a small object take that much longer using a small hole that doesn't destroy the original shape? Though, I agree, if the size of the object increased to a hollow baseball, then the hole should be understandably larger to compensate for the increased powder to remove. Maybe that's the whole "ratio to part" guidline.

So, is this the only way a sphere the size of a golf ball can be printed in full color sandstone using one 2.5cm diameter hole? (Quick mock-up from Illustrator below:)

index.php?t=getfile&id=11221&private=0

[Updated on: Fri, 30 September 2011 16:55 UTC]

Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #35535 is a reply to message #34305 ] Fri, 30 September 2011 17:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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I believe Nancy has addressed this above. You can use smaller holes, you just have to have more of them, so that you have about the same area open for de-powdering. When it comes to very tiny objects, less than one inch wide, you'd probably be better off making it solid, since Sandstone is the cheapest material.


Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #39853 is a reply to message #34402 ] Mon, 05 December 2011 21:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Molecule  is currently offline Molecule
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nancyliang wrote on Fri, 16 September 2011 22:36

Escape Hole rule:
The basics is that we need to be able to get the sand out, to increase your chances of having a depowder-able design, we recommend that you do either:
- 2.5 cm for one hole
- 1.5 cm for two holes
- 1 cm for four holes


Could you please explain to me how that relates to the tutorial about creating hollow objects that mentions:"They should be at least 2mm wide and I recommend you add two or three - more if you have a complex shape that could be more difficult to clean."

This is kind of confusing.

And what if I don't mind having powder in my model, does it matter for the price of my model if it is possible to remove the powder or not.


Molecule
Re: Fuller Color Sandstone [message #40020 is a reply to message #39853 ] Fri, 09 December 2011 17:10 UTC Go to previous message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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As a general 'rule of thumb' the 2mm escape hole bit applies to plastic materials as the others have their own set of design rules. Check out the Full Colour Sandstone design rules for a more comprehensive view of what's needed to make the print work.


 
   
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