| Dying Strong and Flexible [message #31387] Sat, 23 July 2011 14:50 UTC |
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You must recognize a failure when you see one.
My attempt to dye Strong and Flexible is a failure.
I read a lot of threads about dying Strong and Flexible and usually the name that comes again and again is RIT.
Unfortunately this brand is not available in Europe.
I tryed once with a Dylon dye, but unfortunately the product that was available at my store was not suitable for Nylon and it was a failure.
So I ordered on Internet some Acid Dyes. The brand is Jacquard. I followed the instructions: it was a failure. The colors were washed out as if the dye had not pentrated the material.
I tried again adding some vinegar: a new failure.
You can see the result here:
The process I followed is this one:
- Wash the model with soap and hot water
- Rinse
- Add the powder in hot water in a small plastic bottle (0.16g of powder for 160ml of water for a model of 10g)
- add some drops of vinegar (between ten and twenty I would say)
- Add the model in the bottle
- Put the bottle in boiling water for 30 min, regularly shaking the bottle
- Empty the bottle and rinse the model.
So what did I do wrong?
Perhaps I did not rinse enough well? When I shaked the bottle there was some foam at the surface.
Perhaps the water in the bottle was not hot enough? But it's written it should not boil.
Any idea? Anyone that would like to share his experience with Jacquard acid dyes?
Thanks,
Magic
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So many things to design, so little time...
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #31390 is a reply to message #31387 ] Sat, 23 July 2011 15:34 UTC |
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It took me a week to find a supplier of RIT die in Canada. Almost no one caries it but 1 craft store still did.
As for procedures.
1) Put hot water and die in small thermos
2) close lid and shake well
3) add models
4) close lid and shake gently until time has lapsed(time varies depending on colour. aim short if you don't know how quick it will go. 2 to 4 minutes usually)
5) remove models with a spoon
6) if colour is good rinse off gently and place on paper towel. if too light go to step 3
Note model will get a little liter when you rinse off. I usually have a bucket of cold water near by for this step.
[Updated on: Sat, 23 July 2011 15:36 UTC]
Follow me on twitter http://twitter.com/mctrivia or my blog at http://4ddice.blogspot.com/
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #31391 is a reply to message #31387 ] Sat, 23 July 2011 15:52 UTC |
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I have had excellent results with Dylon tins (the hot water version)
Cleaning and rinsing before dying is a must, and some colors are better/more even than others.
I just follow the instruction:
Use an old pan with prescribed amount of water ( or less), add the tin and salt.
Keep stirring and simmering until time is up or the colors look nice.
I'm always too hasty, but you can easily let it simmer for 30 minutes to get deep dark colors.
- Artist / Engineer / Designer / Shopowner / Volunteer / Moderator -
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #31393 is a reply to message #31391 ] Sat, 23 July 2011 16:31 UTC |
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@ Mctrivia: I can try again to find a supplier in France, or pehaps order it by Internet (but the shipping fees are not always included in the prices...  )
@ Virtox: the Dylon dye I used was for washing machine. I saw afterward that it was writtent it was not suitable for Nylon (only cotton, linen and viscose). Hot water version... What is exactly written on the box?
Thanks for the informations.
[Updated on: Sat, 23 July 2011 16:32 UTC]
So many things to design, so little time...
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #31396 is a reply to message #31393 ] Sat, 23 July 2011 17:33 UTC |
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I buy them at local drugstores (Etos/DA) for about €2,50 I believe.
[Updated on: Sat, 23 July 2011 17:38 UTC]
- Artist / Engineer / Designer / Shopowner / Volunteer / Moderator -
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #31397 is a reply to message #31387 ] Sat, 23 July 2011 17:34 UTC |
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[Updated on: Sat, 23 July 2011 17:36 UTC]
- Artist / Engineer / Designer / Shopowner / Volunteer / Moderator -
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #31398 is a reply to message #31397 ] Sat, 23 July 2011 17:42 UTC |
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They don't keep much stock of colors, so it's a bit luck of the draw which colors I can get, but if you want, I could check and buy you a handful and send them?
PM me with details if you want.
[Updated on: Sat, 23 July 2011 17:42 UTC]
- Artist / Engineer / Designer / Shopowner / Volunteer / Moderator -
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #31400 is a reply to message #31387 ] Sat, 23 July 2011 17:52 UTC |
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Here's another thread that talks about both RIT and Jacquard Acid Dyes.
Gear Heart arrived!
I didn't get good results using Jacquard dye, but pdlincoln had very good results using RIT (using the same model).
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #31402 is a reply to message #31398 ] Sat, 23 July 2011 17:53 UTC |
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@Virtox: Ah, yes, these are the multi-purpose dyes. These ones were unfortunately missing from my store.
Thank you for your offer. I will first see if I can use the dyes I already own. They are acid dyes: they SHOULD work!
[Updated on: Sat, 23 July 2011 18:44 UTC]
So many things to design, so little time...
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #31455 is a reply to message #31387 ] Sun, 24 July 2011 16:58 UTC |
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@Magic: Thank you.  And, yes, I know approximately how much I used. I used about .25 ounces of dye (half of a .5 ounce container), 1/4 cup vinegar and about 12 cups of water.
I'll be dying another heart soon using RIT dye. I'll let you know how it turns out.
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #31853 is a reply to message #31455 ] Sat, 30 July 2011 14:12 UTC |
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12 cups of water... Can you please tell me what is the approximate volume of a cup?
So many things to design, so little time...
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #32066 is a reply to message #31936 ] Thu, 04 August 2011 17:37 UTC |
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Hey Magic, I meant to follow up on this. I've had good success with jacquard dyes, but I have a very inexact process.
Wash:
Let the nylon stand in water overnight, then simmer with a bit of detergent for a few minutes. Then leave under a running tap for a few minutes to get a good rinse.
Dye: I have a milk pan that I fill about 600ml for big things, but often use a little metal measuring cup that is 250ml for small things. Add a couple of glugs of vinegar (actually non-brewed condiment - so it's kosher too) - probably about 80-100ml for a pan of water. I use probably about quarter or half a level teaspoon of dye powder for a pan.
Mix it up and dump the nylon in and simmer it, and come back every few minutes to turn it over. If it's determined to float, I drop a bit of perforated metal on it (it's actually the die from a potato ricer) to keep it immersed.
Simmer for 10-20 minutes, or until it looks ok. Try rinsing a bit off under the tap to see what it's really like, and put it back if if it's not right yet. I found greens and pinks often looked great out the pan, but hardly any of the actual colour penetrated the plastic, so it almost all just rinsed off.
Getting a light colour is a matter of dyeing for less time, rather than using less dye. Easier to control time than quantities. If in doubt, use more dye, and use more acid.
Once it's cooled down, give a thorough rinse and a scrub with a toothbrush under the cold tap and leave to dry on paper towels. Sometimes there's a bit of colour comes off on the paper, sometimes not. Who knows why?
I seal the pieces with future pledge afterwards too, to make sure it doesn't come off on clothes, or fingers, and to make it washable too.
Sandy Noble
www.uptomuch.co.uk
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #32068 is a reply to message #32066 ] Thu, 04 August 2011 17:54 UTC |
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As 'inexact' as Sandy says his method might be, in person, Sandy's items look great, the colours are quite vivid.
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #32069 is a reply to message #32066 ] Thu, 04 August 2011 17:56 UTC |
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Wow, the results are really great! Nice job!
Thank you for your explanations Sandy.
I will perhaps give Jacquard a last chance (probably with more powder this time).
So many things to design, so little time...
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #32074 is a reply to message #31387 ] Thu, 04 August 2011 18:04 UTC |
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Did anyone try ink-jet refill colors yet?
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #32077 is a reply to message #32074 ] Thu, 04 August 2011 18:28 UTC |
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I'm pretty sure ink-jet refill colours are water soluble (fliers I used to put out door-to-door for a home business always ran if they got wet), not so good unless the ink is sealed after. WSF takes well to diluted artist's acrylic paint, which also seals as it dries.
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #32106 is a reply to message #32077 ] Fri, 05 August 2011 12:15 UTC |
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I'm also in France, using Rit dyes, but buying them from Ebay in the US. Although the postage is more than the cost of the dye it still works out cheaper than buying locally made dyes that don't work as well. I've just paid 36 dollars for six packs of which €21.71 was postage. The dyes I can buy here are around 6 Euros a pack.
I'm using one pack of Rit dye in just under a liter of water. I heat this in a stainless steel pan on an induction hob to just on boiling point. Turn it off then add what I want to dye. Leave for 40 mins (or longer) stirring occasionally.
I then pour they dye back into a container - I use a plastic milk bottle using a largish funnel with a strainer ambivalence inside to catch what it is I've just dyed. I do this in the sink so spillages can be washed away easily. I then rinse the items, still in the strainer, under cold running water for a min or so.
This causes some dye loss and it may be necessary to repeat the process, but if you don't do this you seem to sometimes get crusty bits when it dries. Then I leave the newly stained items in a stainless steel tray to dry.
Tom
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #32655 is a reply to message #31387 ] Sun, 14 August 2011 13:02 UTC |
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I recently received a set of maze-lock cylinders, which I wanted to dye black once I had verified that they actually work.
Based on recommendations from these forums (and this thread in particular), I went with Dylon Universal "08 Ebony Black" dye. (I live in Germany and ordered the dye online from here. I'm not affiliated with these people, but they do seem nice, especially after they added some complimentary gummi bears to my package.)
Here's what I started with:
That "Spezialsalz zum Färben" (dyeing salt) in the upper-right corner seems to be identical to regular table salt.
The manual includes a section about dyeing small objects (in contrast to textiles) with slightly different instructions (notably to skip the salt), but after some pondering I decided that (porous) WSF seemed closer to textiles than to the kind of small objects the manual probably refers to (like buttons, I suppose), so I went with those instructions.
One thing the manual does emphasize in several places is that you should wear protective gloves, so I did.
I started by cleaning remaining dust off my WSF pieces in warm water with some dishwashing detergent and a small scrubber.
Then I put 60 grams of salt and a full pack of dye (9 grams, even though the instructions say "5 grams" – but I wouldn't know what to do with a half-pack of dye, so I just used it all) into 500 ml of boiling water, waited for the salt to dissolve and then dropped my WSF pieces in there. (The lower-left picture actually shows the WSF pieces in the dye.)
I let the WSF soup simmer for 10 minutes, stirring it frequently. After that time, I fished the dyed pieces out, rinsed them under running cold water and put them on a paper towel to dry. The leaking dye at the narrow ends of the 'key' pieces is just trickling out of their hollow innards, which I couldn't (or at least didn't) rinse properly.
The final result is excellent, if I may say so myself.
The vaguely spaceship-shaped piece in the middle and the serpentine thing at the bottom of the image are pieces I ordered in BSF from Shapeways. It's a bit hard to see on the photograph, but the self-dyed WSF pieces actually came out in a considerably deeper black than the BSF pieces, which always seem to have a very slight bluish-reddish hue.
So that went well for a first try.  I might even start ordering black pieces in WSF and dyeing them myself in the future.
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #32658 is a reply to message #32655 ] Sun, 14 August 2011 13:51 UTC |
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I wonder if the color penetrates the material all to the core or just the outer shell. Anyone ever cut a dyed pice open?
But thanks for the report + link! Will try this soon...
[Updated on: Sun, 14 August 2011 13:51 UTC]
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #32659 is a reply to message #32658 ] Sun, 14 August 2011 14:01 UTC |
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It's just on the edge - doesn't go all the way thorough.
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #32662 is a reply to message #32655 ] Sun, 14 August 2011 14:23 UTC |
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The Rit dyes Black is that same blueish-black that the BSF is.
I've ended up mixing my own colors.
Tom
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #32792 is a reply to message #32753 ] Tue, 16 August 2011 11:19 UTC |
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| trompevenlo wrote on Mon, 15 August 2011 19:37 |
Would you mind giving us permission to re-post your excellent guide over at the newly born 3d Print Wiki ? See here.
If you would like to do it yourself, that would be even better. Send a PM with your email address and I'll hook you up as an editor.[/url]
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I'd be pleased to do that. I've sent you a PM.
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #47010 is a reply to message #32795 ] Sat, 14 April 2012 23:52 UTC |
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Hi.
I tried to dye a couple of WSF-bracelets this way, but it didn't work as well as the black thingies Michael dyed.
I chose a very dark shade of blue and followed Michaels instructions precisely. But unfortunately they came out very, very light blue. Definitely not such a deep colour as in the instructions.
I need a method where I can quickly dye several items at once. So painting each object with a lot of patience won't really work. Do you guys maybe have an idea? Thx!
[Updated on: Sat, 14 April 2012 23:53 UTC]
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #47013 is a reply to message #47012 ] Sun, 15 April 2012 01:36 UTC |
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Hi tebee, thanks for your quick reply!
Obviously I forgot to mention the Rit Dye is not available in my country. Ofcourse I could buy it via Ebay, but that would require another week of my patience...
Is there perhaps another way? 
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #47014 is a reply to message #47013 ] Sun, 15 April 2012 02:00 UTC |
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They are not available in either of the counties I live in either, but with the local dyes I had the same sort of experience you are now having.
Patience is a virtue....... 
Keep telling my wife that, but she is Chinese and it's not a word in her vocabulary
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #47023 is a reply to message #47014 ] Sun, 15 April 2012 09:35 UTC |
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@BraceletBtique: there are various Dylon dyes. Only the Universal one can dye the nylon. Are you sure you choose the proper one?
I did not (Dylon Universal not available), and the result was very very clear (almost white, to be honest).
[Updated on: Sun, 15 April 2012 09:38 UTC]
So many things to design, so little time...
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #47173 is a reply to message #47023 ] Wed, 18 April 2012 16:52 UTC |
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@Magic
I used two different Dylons, also the Universal. Didn't look good at all unfortunately... 
I order the Rye, hopefully it will be here in two days.
I also went to a local paintshop and the advised me to use a spray-primer and spray industrial lacque. They'll spray one item for me so I can see how it will turn out. Very curious!
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #47179 is a reply to message #47173 ] Wed, 18 April 2012 17:50 UTC |
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Oh. this is very disappointing for the Dylon Universal...
Good luck for your future experiments!
So many things to design, so little time...
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #66873 is a reply to message #31387 ] Thu, 25 April 2013 17:43 UTC |
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Hi guys
This is a fan thread and thanks for putting your comments on here, I shortly should be recovering some products from shapeways which I will either have to dye or paint and was just have a few questions
1) I recently received a prototype of a cufflink, I used a acrylic paint for the front as it has a few colours(white and orange) so I only painted the orange bit And as it comes in white I didn't touch the rest. However on testing ie. Wearing the shirt to work etc I found the white to pick up dirt from my desk and slowly over a few weeks looked a bit gruby. Has anyone had experience in sealing nylon, do you think I could use tent sealer? Has anyone got any ideas how to make the white stay fresh?
2) while wearing for a few weeks I also found that some of then acrylic paint scratched of, only tiny amounts as you can imagine that the cufflins hit the desk an. Again do you reckon a sealant may stop this
3) for some of the new cufflinks for example a Car I'm was thinking off dying red then maybe painting the wheels black with acrylic paint has anyone had experience of this?
4) I'm also concerned that if anyone is like me then they forget they have cufflinks on and stick them in the wash with the shirt. If I dye them do you reckon the dye will run into then shirt? Will the dye fade? Will the cufflinks hold out though a wash. While I can test this I thought I would ask
So over all I guess maybe all the above, dyeing and using acrylic paint will work I guessing I may need to just use a sealant of some sort
Thanks for your time, and any response, advise and critasium is very much appreciated
Oh just a few more question totally of topic but still about cufflinks
Would you buy nylon 618 cufflinks if you wear cufflinks
Do you feel that 8£ for a set of cufflinks is a OK price, including free cufflink box and UK delivery
Would you feel ripped off because of the light weight of nylon cufflinks when you recieved them
Do you feel disappointed that the end of the cufflink is just round and not a twist end like most metal cufflinks?
Anything you want to add to your thoughts on nylon cufflinks
Thanks
Stewie
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #66879 is a reply to message #66873 ] Thu, 25 April 2013 21:08 UTC |
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Hi Stewie,
1 & 4) Strong & Flexible (aka WSF) is porous in nature, sort of implied on the S&F materials page 'This material is not watertight' and will collect everyday dirt. And there's some good news, WSF is dshwasher safe, not sure about dyed & washing machines, but I should imagine that a low temperature, mixed coloureds wash would be ok. The cufflinks on a white shirt in a high temp wash wouldn't end up favourably for the shirt
There's another thread from a while back that mentions Klear floor sealer as a good clear sealant for WSF.
2) The best results I've had with acrylic paint is to use diluted artist acrylic paint. Quite a watery mix and dip the parts repeatedly lots of times. Less dilute acylic e.g. Humbrol spray paints go on as thicker coats, don't soak in as well and can chip or flake.
3) No experience, but I'd go with sealing the dyed part first before painting with acrylic.
I don't wear cufflinks. Remember though, that just about any kind geometry is possible with 3D printing technology and whether Nylon or Silver an unexpected twist to a design can make all the difference.
Paul
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| Re: Dying Strong and Flexible [message #66981 is a reply to message #66879 ] Sun, 28 April 2013 09:36 UTC |
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@ stop4stuff
Thanks for the info, Im now thinking of going down the root of using acrylic paint and then using a sealant like you recommended
However I have been having trouble finding it here in the UK, but found this comment on another website:
It's changed it's name again. It's now called Pledge Multi-Surface Wax. I often use Klear as a sealer/varnish on polymer clay, but haven't as yet used the new one. I have been told that this new one hasn't changed in anyway from the old one - just a name change, but as I say I haven't used it yet so can't say if it behaves any differently.
Here's a link to it on SC Johnson's site so you know what you are looking for http://www.scjohnson.co.uk/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=7864 I have been told that it isn't that easy to get hold of, but heard that Wilko's sell it. I got my last Klear in a largish Tesco, so they may also stock the new one.
I dont know if any one could confirm the link above is correct, you will need to copy and paste into a browser
However thansk to everyone posting info on this , I will update this post with any success and problem I come across to help others too.
Cheers
Speak soon.
Ps. My first big shapeway delivery is tomorrow according to UPS , I can not wait whoop whoop
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