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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25814 is a reply to message #25810 ] Fri, 08 April 2011 12:45 UTC |
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Thanks, will look into this as well. I wish there was much more of an update I can give--there are some things I can and can't share publicly just yet. Please keep me informed as you get more prints successfully printed that was rejected at Shapeways.
[Updated on: Fri, 08 April 2011 14:30 UTC]
Product Manager
Twitter: @nliang
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25815 is a reply to message #25810 ] Fri, 08 April 2011 12:45 UTC |
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It's definitely time for Shapeways to get their act together - re. wall thickness, finishing AND pricing
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Definitely wow
1.5mm thick walls.. smooth surface.. accurate colors placement and not distorted/smudged..
(It would seem the support material you received with the model i.e: plain white sandstone may cost 3 times as much as the model itself yet its not counted into the price..)
http://www.3Dizingof.com
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25819 is a reply to message #25815 ] Fri, 08 April 2011 14:43 UTC |
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Yes, I understand your pain. We are researching alternative methods that will give bright colors and strength. Please let me know when you get any more prints >> nancy (at) shapeways (dot) com.
Thanks
Product Manager
Twitter: @nliang
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25822 is a reply to message #25810 ] Fri, 08 April 2011 15:26 UTC |
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That is a beautiful print, done about as well as it can be done with current technology.
The model you show was processed mostly by hand. Because it reached a certain price point, it becomes efficient to do that. The material becomes a smaller fraction of the cost, and such a delicate model has to use support anyway. Applying the volume-based price scheme makes no sense in this context, especially with such a light model.
It sounds like what you're really looking for are hand finished models. Shapeways specializes in volume efficiency and other companies already provide the other type of service.
Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25828 is a reply to message #25822 ] Fri, 08 April 2011 18:25 UTC |
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| aeron203 wrote on Fri, 08 April 2011 15:26 |
The model you show was processed mostly by hand. Because it reached a certain price point, it becomes efficient to do that ...
Shapeways specializes in volume efficiency and other companies already provide the other type of service.
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Nice theory, but the price tag for this thing speaks a very different language. Verify for yourself, if you like.
In fact, if price and result are OK, I could care less HOW it is done.
To me, the massive support structure mainly prompts some questions about a linear volume-based price scheme.
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25832 is a reply to message #25810 ] Fri, 08 April 2011 20:24 UTC |
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I think we agree that volume-based pricing doesn't always make sense. It's just very convenient for calculation. This works in our favor for small items so of course its going to work less well in some cases.
It does look like there is a lot of demand for figurines, which has shown to be the closest thing to a "killer app" for 3d printing. I think we could expect a volume discount as with WSF, but I suspect they will hold firm on the wall-thickness requirement. This material is extremely delicate and figurines tend to have stuff sticking off of them that will break in automated depowdering. Switching away from automation would definitely kick up the price. Maybe Shapeways might consider a premium service for figurines.
Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25841 is a reply to message #25810 ] Sat, 09 April 2011 11:17 UTC |
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BTW, no need to send PMs.
Read between the lines to find out about the unnamed materialising company.
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25842 is a reply to message #25841 ] Sat, 09 April 2011 11:45 UTC |
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| trompevenlo wrote on Sat, 09 April 2011 11:17 |
BTW, no need to send PMs.
Read between the lines to find out about the unnamed materialising company.
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@trompevenlo
what was the cost of shipping ? now that they have a $99/euro limit for free shipping
I hate paying local UPS 120% (!) extra just for "opening a file" on my package.
http://www.3Dizingof.com
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25846 is a reply to message #25842 ] Sat, 09 April 2011 14:41 UTC |
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Um, I know I'm missing the point of the thread, or maybe everyone else is, but why did you 3D print this anyhow? It's completely awesome, don't get me wrong, but why not just make it? You know, glue, rusty springs and bolts. Seems like that would be much cheaper lol
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25848 is a reply to message #25846 ] Sat, 09 April 2011 15:15 UTC |
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I think the point is that this piece is decidedly not what it appears to be... which is often the point in a work of art.
It's an interesting use of cutting edge technology to create something that looks like it was made in an old-tech medium. I like it!
[Updated on: Sat, 09 April 2011 15:16 UTC]
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25850 is a reply to message #25810 ] Sat, 09 April 2011 15:26 UTC |
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Doh! Good point! I didn't think of it that way! Ironic because I'm currently modeling something that plays off that same principle! Lol sometimes art needs explaining, can anyone say Jackson Pollock.
[Updated on: Sat, 09 April 2011 15:26 UTC]
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25855 is a reply to message #25846 ] Sat, 09 April 2011 17:42 UTC |
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| noesis wrote on Sat, 09 April 2011 14:41 |
Um, I know I'm missing the point of the thread, or maybe everyone else is, but why did you 3D print this anyhow? It's completely awesome, don't get me wrong, but why not just make it? You know, glue, rusty springs and bolts. Seems like that would be much cheaper lol
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Congratulations, you are the
- first
- second
- third
to ask that question and you all are absolutely right. Why would anybody be crazy enough to make stupid things like model trains, miniature houses, figurines and all that.
Just some wood, bricks and mortar, and voilà, there is your house. It's sooo easy and a lot of fun ...
But on the serious side, the real point of this thread is actually something completely different ...
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25856 is a reply to message #25855 ] Sat, 09 April 2011 18:04 UTC |
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Lol, I thought I was being so original though!  I'm guessing you'll be asked this same question many times over  I do think your stuff is really cool, are they originals or are you basing your designs off of already existing metal figures made the "traditional" way?
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #25857 is a reply to message #25856 ] Sat, 09 April 2011 18:06 UTC |
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Oh and yes, I see the underlying actual topic Appreciate the sharing, competition for Shapeways can only mean improvement for us end users.
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #27073 is a reply to message #25810 ] Sat, 07 May 2011 09:21 UTC |
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| nancyliang wrote on Fri, 08 April 2011 12:45 |
Please keep me informed as you get more prints successfully printed that was rejected at Shapeways.
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Since you asked for it: These were printed by .........
11cm (4.5") high, perfectly colored and sturdy at 1.5 mm wall thickness.
The same:
This is what we found in the package from Leuven:
and these are the wall thicknesses which made them so affordable.
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #27081 is a reply to message #25810 ] Sat, 07 May 2011 14:24 UTC |
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beautiful prints.
is the lower-right really from shapeways.. you got white !?
http://www.3Dizingof.com
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #27113 is a reply to message #27081 ] Sun, 08 May 2011 15:29 UTC |
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| dizingof wrote on Sat, 07 May 2011 14:24 |
is the lower-right really from shapeways.. you got white !?
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Like always, the Shapeways "white" is actually a light brownish yellow. It looks +-acceptable until you get something which has a real white.
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #27120 is a reply to message #27115 ] Sun, 08 May 2011 20:46 UTC |
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Only very minor improvement in whiteness level since a few months ago. It's just a slight bit grayer than yellow. But seems like it's a misprint slipped past QA, since everything in this order has the large white-ish spots on the prints that are the same as on an earlier print that failed due to a problem during the infusion process. Also notice the "leaking" colors...
[Updated on: Sun, 08 May 2011 21:53 UTC]
Kaetemi
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #27139 is a reply to message #27115 ] Mon, 09 May 2011 07:29 UTC |
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| dizingof wrote on Sun, 08 May 2011 15:58 |
could "they" be using a different material for color printing?
At first glance my tiger looks like a porcelain.. no grainy feel ...
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I believe the material is more or less the same, but post-processing differs.
As far as I know, they dip the models into superglue of some sort (stuff like this) after printing.
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #27171 is a reply to message #25810 ] Mon, 09 May 2011 15:46 UTC |
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"Horrible" is understatement ...
I cant understand why Shapeways keeps outsourcing to this production partner.
It simply kills this material both for designers and customers.
http://www.3Dizingof.com
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #27177 is a reply to message #27171 ] Mon, 09 May 2011 16:34 UTC |
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Well, I assume the color range is related to the range that the zcorp color ink can reach. I just hope they don't randomly start messing around with it without noticing us beforehand, would waste time and money spent tweaking colors.
Kaetemi
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #28269 is a reply to message #27177 ] Fri, 27 May 2011 16:02 UTC |
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For reference, I've ordered these color palettes at i.materialise as well. Whiteness is 'ok', as in 'not yellowish'. But, the color gradients are almost the same there, and actually for some reason worse than shapeways. On the i.materialise parts there seems to be some odd oversaturated brightening occuring from 50% to 25% luminosity (it remains overly bright in color in that range), with a very short gradient to black from there on. The black is less smudgy though. The surface for some reason got some very inconsistent glossy/matte treatment, which is not very nice. Scans on monday.
Kaetemi
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #28276 is a reply to message #28269 ] Fri, 27 May 2011 17:58 UTC |
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@kaetemi Thanks for the update. I know Nancy has continued delving into these issues. Looking forward to seeing the images!
Community Manager | Shapeways
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #28432 is a reply to message #28413 ] Tue, 31 May 2011 17:56 UTC |
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I don't like i.materialise's inconsistent gloss layer surface finish very much.
Picture with both Shapeways' and i.materialise's palettes together: http://dl.kaetemi.be/materialise/DSC01727.JPG
Can't do any own polishing on it either, it's completely fixed, not so nice for me.
Kaetemi
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #28826 is a reply to message #28432 ] Thu, 09 June 2011 16:25 UTC |
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Hi... Mostly I'm posting because this is rather a hot issue for me as well (I want the notification). The 3mm limit is just really.... way big... and a different finish would be awesome.
I hope you guys have some good news soon. If you need testers let me know!
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #32038 is a reply to message #28826 ] Thu, 04 August 2011 01:48 UTC |
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Bump - yeah Color in thinner walls would be awesome.
The color-mario I just got feels awesome - even at the thin 1,5mm nose.
Maybe charge like some extra for delicate handling or such.
But I don't see why for example a 1,5mm flat color print with some bumps would fail to work....
I guess it's the way they calculate around here...
Color Issues are another story - the RGB/4c conversion sure blows. Looks like some 1992 HP Inkjet to me!
Maybe Zcorp might have to rewrite their driver...
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #32041 is a reply to message #32038 ] Thu, 04 August 2011 06:34 UTC |
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They use HP 10/11 printheads, only CMYK (& binder), and with really bad "paper" and a weird coating to finish. So normal that it prints like a 90s model. ^_^
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #32071 is a reply to message #32041 ] Thu, 04 August 2011 17:59 UTC |
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Well that's no excuse I think.
The financial scale Zcorp operates at would sure allow them to get some custom inks made and a decent driver as well.
I'm not asking for proof-perfect 4c printing here - but some sort of less-tinted magenta and cyan should be achievable.
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #32073 is a reply to message #32071 ] Thu, 04 August 2011 18:04 UTC |
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Hey guys, we do have a solution in mind and have already begun testing it with a few community members. Currently, the priority is on getting lead times for our other materials back under control (ceramics, frosties, and polished WSF). I am targeting to launch the new solution sometime in September. I'm looking into both color improvements AND structural strength. I think this new process can solve both, based on the tests I've seen. Hang in there!
Product Manager
Twitter: @nliang
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #32088 is a reply to message #32073 ] Thu, 04 August 2011 22:49 UTC |
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@stefan_z: the "paper" is poor in print terms, and not just ZCorp involved, Xlaform coating also affects the result. Load some very bad paper in a photo printer, and later coat it with wood varnish you forgot to stir... ^_^
@nancyliang: Great tip, queueing yet another print of the color reference/tester for then, instead of wasting money now with a soon to be obsolete method.
Will design rules change?
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #32116 is a reply to message #32088 ] Fri, 05 August 2011 15:07 UTC |
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Not sure yet about the design rules. One issue is that while it is possible to print down to 1.5mm, the handling cost would increase. We've subsidized this handling in the past by raising prices on all models... but I feel like that is unfair to people who design structures that are strong enough to begin with.
Also, I understand that some people have received items that feel strong enough for 1.5mm, but remember that even if you get a strong piece at the end, that is not representative of the entire process--there are parts of the process where the model is significantly weaker than the end result.
Product Manager
Twitter: @nliang
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| Re: the WOW continues ... [message #32302 is a reply to message #32116 ] Mon, 08 August 2011 21:37 UTC |
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That's great news, thanks Nancy.
It's good to see that you're trying to push this print technology. I strongly believe that full colour is the future... maybe not this printer/material... but full colour definitely. It's sad that it is quite far behind the other materials in detail/strength... Once it reaches that point I think the potential is huge.
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