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Absolutely WOW ! [message #25018] Sun, 20 March 2011 11:53 UTC Go to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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New arrival , this time not from shapeways...

I wanted to test another 3D printing service to see how i can get a real WHITE and vibrant colors as i saw on so many designers gallery pictures.

So, as promised the following W.o.W character turned out absolutely AMAZING !

The threads about what and how can be found here , here & here.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/wow-pettiger-1.jpg

First off the surface-feel on this model is way different, it would seems as if it was polished ! yes, no sandstone-granule feel but smooth all around even at the tightest tiniest places! amazing.

Second it's hollowed at exactly 3mm wall thickness (special hollowing process i use) and i could have dropped it to 2mm easily, as the minimum requirement is only 1mm (!) on that other 3D printing service website - yet 2mm seems to me as ideal !

So basically in terms of printing cost i was able to print a whopping 15cm long object at only $44 (the other sculptures i printed at shapeways were rejected as "not solid" or "not cleanable" and so i had to shrink their sizes to about 8-9cm in height - probably and i'm only guessing because of delicate Oven stage)


Anyway i'm speechless about the quality and how it turned out !
I don't see any over baked darkened colors , and that awful off-white but vivid white.

See for yourselves..


http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0006-5.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0011-3.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0018-2.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0021-1.jpg

(model hollowed 3mm wall thickness)
http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0028-1.jpg



With the gang:

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0038.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0046.jpg



Cheers









http://www.3Dizingof.com


Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25043 is a reply to message #25018 ] Mon, 21 March 2011 07:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar kontor_apart  is currently offline kontor_apart
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Quote:

... another 3D printing service ...
would you care giving us a hint ?

Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25049 is a reply to message #25043 ] Mon, 21 March 2011 09:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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trompevenlo wrote on Mon, 21 March 2011 07:34

Quote:

... another 3D printing service ...
would you care giving us a hint ?




This thread is not intended to prompt any other 3D printing service but to raise some questions and create a community discussion about shapeways current post-processing of full color sandstone - a process that while it is thought to make a model survive shipment.. in fact distorts the white into off-white and makes other colors darken.

I'll PM you that other 3D printing website.


Few minutes ago i put the tiger to dry in the sun - with one coat of protecting epoxy spray.


http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0001-4.jpg

I'm still excited about the whole thing and how this one in particular turned out.


To be continued..






http://www.3Dizingof.com


Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25050 is a reply to message #25043 ] Mon, 21 March 2011 09:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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@Trompevenlo http://lmgtfy.com/?q=3d+printing+service Wink

@Dizzy: Nice collection! Smile

[Updated on: Mon, 21 March 2011 09:23 UTC]


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Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25053 is a reply to message #25050 ] Mon, 21 March 2011 12:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bitstoatoms  is currently offline bitstoatoms
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Hey all,

We have been looking into other finishing processes for the full color prints, Nancy will give an update as soon as we have something we are happy with.

We are aware that some of you are looking for brighter whites and sharper colors.

Oh, an please feel free to share images of your Shapeways 3D prints on the websites of other '3D printing services' too. Wink

Cheers


Duann Scott

Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25097 is a reply to message #25050 ] Mon, 21 March 2011 20:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar kontor_apart  is currently offline kontor_apart
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virtox wrote on Mon, 21 March 2011 09:22

@Trompevenlo http://lmgtfy.com/?q=3d+printing+service
knapp daneben ist auch vorbei
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25103 is a reply to message #25097 ] Mon, 21 March 2011 21:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Jettuh  is currently offline Jettuh
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Ja, das ist ziemlich einfach Virtox...
aber es gibt so viele 3D-Druck service Wink
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25107 is a reply to message #25018 ] Mon, 21 March 2011 22:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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lassen Sie uns zurück zum Thema Wink


First i don't think there is any 3D printing service out there that can beat Shapeways minimum order & price.

Yet after seeing the quality of the full color material & its properties that "other 3D printing service" use ... well..


@Trompevenlo PM sent.

@Virtox thanks! more to come, hopefully 3D printed at shapeways.




Btw, i got a confirmation email from their support engineer :

"Concerning the polishing - yes, there's additional polishing done for those type of art models, however not that much."

That explains the smooth surface.



Shapeways your move! Wink








http://www.3Dizingof.com


icon14.gif  Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25115 is a reply to message #25107 ] Tue, 22 March 2011 09:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Dotsan  is currently offline Dotsan
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Brilliant job dizingof, well done.
1mm wall thickness, smooth surface and a brilliant white base. I and all my customers would be very very happy with this. Come on Shapeways lets do it? Wink
V


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Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25119 is a reply to message #25115 ] Tue, 22 March 2011 11:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bitstoatoms  is currently offline bitstoatoms
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Heya, Nancy will give an update, but it is 3mm in Dizingof's WOW model, not 1mm

Cheers


Duann Scott

Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25123 is a reply to message #25018 ] Tue, 22 March 2011 13:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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I looked again at their new redesigned page and it's now: 1.5 to 2mm minimum wall thickness..

The post processing includes infiltration with superglue then a UV resistant coating to keep the colors from fading plus it also smooths the model.


This WOW model is hollowed with a 3mm wall thickness but i doubt shapeways human reviewer would have approved it to print - all 3 previous models were rejected as "not solid" and "uncleanable" when i used an exact hollowing process with a 3mm wall thickness all over - even made enough clearing holes for removal of the internal support material.

I assumed this is because of the fragile post processing / Oven stage ,unique to shapeways, for this material so i had to make the models small.. and solid.

This tiger is 15cm long... if it were solid the cost will be 3 times what i paid - if i were to shrink it's size i can forget about surface details.


An example of an hollowing process i use with an exact X mm wall thickness all over to make printing large models affordable..


http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/humancrosssection12018.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/humancrosssection22020.jpg



Cheers














http://www.3Dizingof.com


Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25142 is a reply to message #25123 ] Tue, 22 March 2011 18:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar nancyliang  is currently offline nancyliang
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Hey guys, unfortunately I don't have anything substantial to give re: whiteness on full color sandstone. As you can imagine, we've been busy launching silver. I will bring it up with our production team tomorrow and maybe have some more information for you in a week or so.

Thanks,
Nancy



Product Manager
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Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25461 is a reply to message #25018 ] Wed, 30 March 2011 20:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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Hey Nancy,

Any news from the production guys?

Will they be willing to pass over the oven stage after the XLA infiltration of the full color sandstone models?

(I personally don't mind waiting over 10 days for it to dry out "in the sun" without been over heated in the oven - at least we can keep the white as white .. with the vibrant colors)



Cheers







http://www.3Dizingof.com


Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25462 is a reply to message #25461 ] Wed, 30 March 2011 20:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar neuralfirings  is currently offline neuralfirings
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.

[Updated on: Wed, 30 March 2011 20:36 UTC]

Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25463 is a reply to message #25461 ] Wed, 30 March 2011 20:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar nancyliang  is currently offline nancyliang
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Yup, they said that they recently changed their process and should be seeing better results. I sent in some test prints because I want to see if that's actually true.

When was the last time you ordered Sandstone from Shapeways? How bad is the yellow?



Product Manager
Twitter: @nliang
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25467 is a reply to message #25018 ] Wed, 30 March 2011 23:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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Nice white there, near as white as the paper. Cyano infiltrant and UV proof varnish sound like a good method, they dry themselves to air and are pretty much transparent, after all.
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25481 is a reply to message #25463 ] Thu, 31 March 2011 10:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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nancyliang wrote on Wed, 30 March 2011 20:36

Yup, they said that they recently changed their process and should be seeing better results. I sent in some test prints because I want to see if that's actually true.

When was the last time you ordered Sandstone from Shapeways? How bad is the yellow?


This model arrived on the 16th of March 2011

As you can see on the models links on top of this page, the models i printed were over baked and the colors turned into coal black.

The rest of the colors are also too dark as can be seen on this print:

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0003-2.jpg



When can we expect your test prints to arrive?



http://www.3Dizingof.com


Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25518 is a reply to message #25018 ] Thu, 31 March 2011 19:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar jeff  is currently offline jeff
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I printed this big white square to test the whiteness.
























As you can see it's barely discernible from the background. Wink

just kidding, just been following this thread & looking fwd to more info.


Jeff Bare
Industrial Designer
@jbaredesign
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25523 is a reply to message #25518 ] Thu, 31 March 2011 22:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Dotsan  is currently offline Dotsan
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Add invisible material to your list Nancy Razz
V


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Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25549 is a reply to message #25523 ] Fri, 01 April 2011 19:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar jeff  is currently offline jeff
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I think she did, according to latest blog post.


Jeff Bare
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Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25552 is a reply to message #25549 ] Fri, 01 April 2011 21:03 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ana  is currently offline ana
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She sure did! hehe

I announced it here:

http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=4897&a mp;start=0&


Community Manager | Shapeways

Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25758 is a reply to message #25018 ] Thu, 07 April 2011 10:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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Just stumbled upon this pic at flickr ... nice hah? Cool


http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/tiger-i-materialisecom.jpg



Btw, anyone trying to contact me via private messages... i have issues with my inbox ..

If you dont get replies from me that's because i never got your PM..
try contact me here dizingof3d at walla.com


Nancy , any news ? i'm itching to order some more full color stuff


Cheers



http://www.3Dizingof.com


Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25811 is a reply to message #25758 ] Fri, 08 April 2011 12:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Thread continues here.

Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25813 is a reply to message #25811 ] Fri, 08 April 2011 12:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Hey, thanks for pointing this out. Judging from the model, it seems like the process your white tiger used was dipped in superglue. We don't use that process (we have in the past) because it is messy, creates toxic fumes, and leads to parts that are less strong than our current process.

Your elephant looks like it is overbaked, which was an issue we brought up with our supplier as well. We are looking into alternative methods, which I can't say much more about at this point unfortunately--hopefully I'll have an update shortly (in a month) on this matter. I'm pushing to get some results sooner though. I have some nice Color Sandstone project I would like to work on as well.

Thanks,
Nancy



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Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #25830 is a reply to message #25813 ] Fri, 08 April 2011 19:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar ana  is currently offline ana
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Hey Dizingof,

Thanks for taking the time to give feedback on where we need to step it up. All of us want to see better results on sandstone, so the team is working hard on it right now.

Nancy, good to hear you guys are working on alternatives. We're all excited to hear more as you're able to share it.


Community Manager | Shapeways

Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26081 is a reply to message #25049 ] Fri, 15 April 2011 07:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar DesignsbyALX  is currently offline DesignsbyALX
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WOW, i agree! Very Happy
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26232 is a reply to message #25018 ] Tue, 19 April 2011 18:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Hey, Dizingof, care to explain your hollowing out process?

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26671 is a reply to message #25018 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 08:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Looks awesome!

I like to share my experiences as well. Because I am sure the Shapies wil consider them.

I Printed some full color scans of people. I had no problem with the color shapeways prints but the waxy finish was very spotty at times.

I tried i.materialise and they where very helpful. I enjoyed the fact that when something was wrong with the model, in my case the seams of the texture I got an email from technical capable person and we could quickly sort it out.

The finish they used was much, much better. Also the are a little bit more pricey but I can use 1mm wall thickness instead of 3 so the total price went from ~60 euro at shapeways to 25 at i.materialise. On top of that it is much more convenient for me to use thinner walls since some legs of my statuettes are to thin to support a wall thickness of 3mm.

But the colors where completely off! My first try they where way to light almost if the wrong gamma was used and the blacks where almost non existent and purple-ish. So I tried again compensating the texture to be darker that result was also bad since the black (or darker colors) where off again and purple-ish.

Also I explicitly asked that they print the model standing up since for human figures that improves the quality enormously (otherwise you get rings on the belly) And they failed that as well..

So I am still searching for a 3D print service who can reliably give me the same quality in color, finish etc.

My hope is that shapeways is that service since for everything else they have consistency down!

I did order 2 statuettes in the new frosted material. Curious to see what that will do!


See more of my 3D scanning/printing adventures here: http://3dpersons.com/ or statyou.com
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26672 is a reply to message #26671 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 09:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The colors wear off on the Shapeways model or the other models?

I'm going to speak to a few more potential partners this week and next week on better solutions for color printing.

I definitely feel your pain and your need--there's a project I have in the pipeline that is dependent on having good color prints as well.



Product Manager
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Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26673 is a reply to message #26672 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 09:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tristan_bethe  is currently offline tristan_bethe
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The colors of the i.material models where not good on arrival.

The originator of this thread had superb results with the same company.

That was maybe because he uses actual blacks in his model. I use photographs to create the texture so there is no black black but just dark shades of other colours.

Shapeways prints those colors perfectly but has a wax finish I do not like since it is spotty sometimes.

I am now trying 3dcreationlab.co.uk they seem to be very serious about quality although they are more expensive. I have to wait and see for the results though.

Please Let me know if you find a good color print service, I'll keep you posted if this one turns out well.

Again Hope that shapeways fixes the various ailments since I find them more convenient overal..



See more of my 3D scanning/printing adventures here: http://3dpersons.com/ or statyou.com
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26674 is a reply to message #26673 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 09:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I see, would you like us to send you some models with and without the wax and see what you prefer? If you e-mail me a model you'd like to try out (nancy@shapeways.com), I can run some tests for you.

Without the wax might be nice in some areas, but may have downsides as well. But we can definitely try it!



Product Manager
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Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26675 is a reply to message #26674 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 10:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tristan_bethe  is currently offline tristan_bethe
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That would be awesome. I want to add my own finish anyways and perhaps adding no finish form shapeways would be an option. Or maybe Shapeways could introduce a choise in finish?

Love to test it in any case! I sent you an email.


See more of my 3D scanning/printing adventures here: http://3dpersons.com/ or statyou.com
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26682 is a reply to message #25018 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 14:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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@tristan_bethe i'm actually surprised with your results
can you post some closeups? and those 1mm models ?

I have to say i'm still amazed by the quality i got (pics on top) - colors are *bright* , white it .. *white*.. and the smooth finish made my model look and feel "porcelain"...

I too hope Nancy will find other color partners that would make our color prints as amazing as that other 3d printing service.

It seems Full Color Sandstone is an "underdog" material .. and it shouldn't be that at all..








http://www.3Dizingof.com


Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26684 is a reply to message #26682 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 14:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tristan_bethe  is currently offline tristan_bethe
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Hey Asher,

Sure, I'll take some pics tonight. Have to say To be save I used 1.4 mm but the model is rock solid.

However 3dcreationlab.co.uk could print it in 1mm but did not want to since it would not suck up the infiltrant enough. Could be also a reason SW does not do 1mm walls...


See more of my 3D scanning/printing adventures here: http://3dpersons.com/ or statyou.com
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26689 is a reply to message #26673 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 14:54 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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tristan_bethe wrote on Thu, 28 April 2011 09:37

The colors of the i.material models where not good on arrival.

See this for very good color representation from our Belgian friends. A few more orders are scheduled to arrive early next week and we'll see the results.

You may be using a different conversion process or upload format and that may cause the dis-coloring.

tristan_bethe wrote on Thu, 28 April 2011 09:37

Please Let me know if you find a good color print service

I would be interested to give the guys from down-under a try (starting with a P and ending with onoko). They claim 1.5 mm and 0.80 USD per cm3. Would end up at 0.95 USD incl. import tax.

However, shipping costs to here seems a little prohibitive. We should be able to cut shipping costs when we combine orders. If somebody from continental Europe would be interested, let me know.
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26691 is a reply to message #26689 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 15:03 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tristan_bethe  is currently offline tristan_bethe
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Hi Ulrich,

Yes your model looks stunning. I use a normal rgb jpeg texture. My models are too big to go trough their upload process so I sent it directly to them by email. I use .wrl as model format.

Curious how you sent your models. I've seen good results from those guys. I'll take some comparisons pics and I'll add the texture as well.


See more of my 3D scanning/printing adventures here: http://3dpersons.com/ or statyou.com
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26696 is a reply to message #26691 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 15:31 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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tristan_bethe wrote on Thu, 28 April 2011 15:03

I use a normal rgb jpeg texture.
That might in fact be the cause. We have converted the texture into vertex colors and I just uploaded a 500,000 triangle mesh in VRML the other day.

Their upload is a little weird. You always have to do it twice before it works.
(but at least, they are not sending any "Thanks for uploading " spam)

Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26697 is a reply to message #25018 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 15:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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same with my model - you have in zbrush an option to transfer texture into vertex color then you can retouch the surface like a Photoshop.. - can be done also in Meshlab (free)


http://www.3Dizingof.com


Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26710 is a reply to message #26697 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 18:51 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar tristan_bethe  is currently offline tristan_bethe
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Aha! That might indeed be the solution then!

Can very well be that Shapeways engineers knows this and make the conversion themselves.

The first time I wanted to print something at i.materialise they spotted seams in between my uvw shards.

I was surprised since I never encountered the same problem at shapeways and used the same workflow.They where very friendly and helped me to solve that issue and hence I use 'Solidify' from Flaming Pear (http://www.flamingpear.com/goodies.html) to continue the color where the texture stops.

Could this be an indication that Shapeways converts my texture to vertex colors since you would not use uvw coordinates anymore?

Related question: does that mean that the resolution of your 'texture' is limited to the number of vertices? So in case of the lion did you add extra vertices to up the res?

As promised I've added 2 images. 1.jpg shows the difference between my shapeways print and the i.materialse prints and 2.jpg shows the wall thickness of the i.materialise prints


  • Attachment: 1.jpg
    (Size: 2.79MB, Downloaded 119 time(s))

  • Attachment: 2.jpg
    (Size: 935.52KB, Downloaded 104 time(s))


See more of my 3D scanning/printing adventures here: http://3dpersons.com/ or statyou.com
Re: Absolutely WOW ! [message #26711 is a reply to message #26710 ] Thu, 28 April 2011 19:14 UTC Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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tristan_bethe wrote on Thu, 28 April 2011 18:51



Related question: does that mean that the resolution of your 'texture' is limited to the number of vertices? So in case of the lion did you add extra vertices to up the res?

As promised I've added 2 images. 1.jpg shows the difference between my shapeways print and the i.materialse prints and 2.jpg shows the wall thickness of the i.materialise prints





those 1.0- 1.4mm wall thickness models are amazing.

yes you need to subdivide your model to as much as possible triangles.
in Zbrush simply hit Ctrl+D few times - now that shapeways has increased the limit of triangles to 1 million that would make your job easy.




http://www.3Dizingof.com



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