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Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24539] Mon, 07 March 2011 15:42 UTC Go to next message
avatar baltimore  is currently offline baltimore
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Hey everyone!

Any guesses what you think the pricing structure will be for the new silver run?

Last time it was $30 minimum per part, with a price of $48 per cubic centimeter. Nancy said she was 95% sure it'd be atleast as cheap and maybe cheaper with the per part minimum perhaps higher.

What are your guesses?


www.Custom3dStuff.com
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24566 is a reply to message #24539 ] Mon, 07 March 2011 23:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pete  is currently offline pete
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Hehehe Smile
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24606 is a reply to message #24566 ] Tue, 08 March 2011 18:31 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar baltimore  is currently offline baltimore
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I'm guessing $40/cc and $45 minimum order.

any other guesses?


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Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24612 is a reply to message #24606 ] Tue, 08 March 2011 19:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Magic  is currently offline Magic
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I would play if the one who gets closer wins a print in Sterling Silver. OK?
Smile


So many things to design, so little time...
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24675 is a reply to message #24539 ] Wed, 09 March 2011 18:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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How about $5cc and $10 minimum? Oh, wait, sorry, I just got back from Fantasyland Smile

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24677 is a reply to message #24539 ] Wed, 09 March 2011 18:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar baltimore  is currently offline baltimore
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$5/cc is less than the spot price of silver.

currently silver costs $36.01 per ounce.
1 ounce ~= 28.3 grams
mass of silver is 10.5g/cc

That's ($36.01/1oz)*(1oz/28.3g)*(10.5g/cc) = $13.36/cc for just the silver material.

So... I think $5/cc is... low.

=)

[Updated on: Wed, 09 March 2011 18:40 UTC]


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Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24720 is a reply to message #24677 ] Thu, 10 March 2011 15:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar baltimore  is currently offline baltimore
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yay it's finally available again!

40/cc for the first cc, and 20/cc thereafter. $40 minimum


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Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24723 is a reply to message #24677 ] Thu, 10 March 2011 18:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar GlenG  is currently offline GlenG
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Silver weight is measured by Troy oz. 1troy oz. = 31.10 grms.

With spot prices approaching $40. oz. It's time to consider melting down grannies flatware Very Happy
-G


"Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art."
Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24724 is a reply to message #24723 ] Thu, 10 March 2011 18:18 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar baltimore  is currently offline baltimore
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yep you're right. i forgot about that when I was doing my calculations... so that lowers the price some but still...

redoing the calculations from before just taking into account my mistake of the oz vs troy oz, you get:
($36.01/Troy oz)*(Troy 1oz/31.1 g)*(10.5g/cc) = $12.15/cc

adjusting for my oz vs troy oz mistake, and updating to todays current price of silver which is $35.03/troy oz:

($35.03/Troy oz)*(Troy 1oz/31.1 g)*(10.5g/cc) = $11.82/cc


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Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24725 is a reply to message #24724 ] Thu, 10 March 2011 18:31 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Charmed_Life_Designs  is currently offline Charmed_Life_Designs
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Silver is here! Very Happy

Looks like $20 per cubic cm with a $20 startup cost. A little pricey for me, but look at those design rules! I have a ring I've been trying to make work with the SS design rules, but it's just not come out... But it seems to be printable in Silver if I just make a few minor tweaks! Gotta start saving up, hehe.


When in doubt... Duct tape!
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24728 is a reply to message #24724 ] Thu, 10 March 2011 20:14 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar GlenG  is currently offline GlenG
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The daily spot price of Silver is only going to be helpful to you if you know the percentage margin that has been added for producing prints in Sterling.


"Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art."
Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24731 is a reply to message #24728 ] Thu, 10 March 2011 21:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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GlenG wrote on Thu, 10 March 2011 20:14

The daily spot price of Silver is only going to be helpful to you if you know the percentage margin that has been added for producing prints in Sterling.


The percentage margin varies depending upon the spot price... and for those of us used to currencies other than USD, monetary exchange rates also come into play.

But all that is bye-the-bye...

The cost of silver is imaterial if the item cannot be sold as silver... any news on EU hallmarking?
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24742 is a reply to message #24731 ] Fri, 11 March 2011 00:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar GlenG  is currently offline GlenG
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The"margin" I am referring to is a fixed percentage that service providers will add to the spot price of materials. This margin accounts for processing, handling and the difficulties associated with dealing in commodities (especially precious ones). So if you deduct the spot price of .999 pure (fine) silver, from what SW charges per volume you will know this margin. I trust that the clever folks at SW have thought long and hard about how to fairly price this volatile commodity.

I'm not up on international silver standards but I know that "SIlver" is actually a rather generic term. Silver is available in many flavors but I have always assumed that if something is marked .925 it is universally accepted as being Sterling Silver? You might like to visit the link below where current EU hallmarks and standards are being discussed.

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5137

-G


"Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art."
Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24743 is a reply to message #24742 ] Fri, 11 March 2011 05:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bitstoatoms  is currently offline bitstoatoms
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Hiya guys,

Mass, price and non-linear equations aside, Nancy is looking into EU Hallmarking and may have something in the coming week(s)..

Cheers


Duann Scott

Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24746 is a reply to message #24742 ] Fri, 11 March 2011 07:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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GlenG wrote on Fri, 11 March 2011 00:45


--snip--

I'm not up on international silver standards but I know that "SIlver" is actually a rather generic term. Silver is available in many flavors but I have always assumed that if something is marked .925 it is universally accepted as being Sterling Silver? You might like to visit the link below where current EU hallmarks and standards are being discussed.

http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5137

-G


Cheers Glen, the pdf linked to in that thread shows the relevant hallmarks for EU member countries.

About a year ago I was invloved with a UK company selling silver items, I made extensive enquiries about UK hallmarking legislation. Something marked .925 is not acceptable for a UK company to sell. Even if the business is web based and the items are dropshipped from Thailand, the item must have the proper hallmarks. An item may not be called Silver if it does not carry the proper hallmarks. Items being retailed as Silver without proper hallmarking leaves the seller open to criminal procesution (applicable to the UK - other countries may differ)

Here my little list of links applicable to the UK if anyone wishes to take a look.

The Hallmarking (International Convention) Order 2002
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/506/introduction/mad e

Consumers Guide to UK Hallmarking Law
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/tna/+/http://www.d ti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/pdf1/hallmarks.pdf/

Retailers Guide to Hallmarking
http://bis.gov.uk/assets/bispartners/britishhallmarkingcounc il/docs/retailers-guide-to-hallmarks-05.pdf

British Hall Marking Council - Guidance Notes
http://bis.gov.uk/assets/bispartners/britishhallmarkingcounc il/docs/hallmark-guidance-notes-final.pdf

Also the following pdf applicable to the Netherlands shows the standards acceptable under the International Standards Convention. http://www.ewnederland.nl/hallmarks.pdf
- main site - http://www.ewnederland.nl/uk_index.php

@ drscott - my google-fu on the subject is strong Wink if Nancy needs a hand, gimme a shout.
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24751 is a reply to message #24746 ] Fri, 11 March 2011 13:23 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar GlenG  is currently offline GlenG
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There is a dizzying array of hallmarks (icons) that are used in different countries to denote silver grades. These are typically applied to fabricated goods by mechanical stamping. I wonder if these could be included in the computer model and cast in place? Then there is the problem of making sure the correct hallmark was applied based on the final destination of the object. Logistical nightmare eh!

-G


"Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art."
Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24761 is a reply to message #24751 ] Fri, 11 March 2011 16:17 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Glen, here in the UK, selling a Silver item with a printed hallmark carries just the same criminal implications if not more so. Rapid prototyping and 3D printing for silver was how I found Shapeways... the same thoughts went through my head and I checked it out, but for us Brits, thats a no go Sad

For countries that have signed up to the International Convention Standards, any member county's hallmarks are good in another member's country. For the UK, any item bought as a 'personal commission', i.e. me buying my own models in Silver from Shapeways doesn't need a hallmark, but technically under UK law, if a Silver item is sold through my Shapeways shop to someone in a member country, then that item would require the appropriate hallmark under UK law (Dutch or British hallmark.) - The only workaround I can forsee on that side of things is if Shapeways was a 'Members Only Outlet' and all models were 'Private Commissions'

For me, re-selling Shapeways Silver items over 7.78g (~0.7cc) from Shapeways would need the items to have a round trip to the London Assay Office to be assayed and stamped. This roughly doubles the cost price of a 1cc item, adds 35% to a 2cc item, etc.

Having said all that, I'm looking forward to next week when I can sit down and order some Silver for myself Smile

For those going to the Newcastle Maker Faire - see you tomorrow Smile
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24781 is a reply to message #24761 ] Fri, 11 March 2011 21:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar GlenG  is currently offline GlenG
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Paul,
There is a good chance you already know of this link. It is today, what was known as the Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths when founded in the year 1300! Some history eh? Not sure if they would be of any help to you.

In light of the fact that you are only acting as a designer, not a silversmith, not a manufacturer, somehow you would think there would be a loophole allowing sales of imported goods? Then again, that's exactly the sort of issue that spawned the guild system.

Anyway, the WCG website is quite lovely and much of the contemporary work is worth looking at: http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/

In the US we have the Society of North American Goldsmiths . Quite a different beast and it dates back less than 50 years. But it is a great repository of of information on the art and craft of metal smithing.

-G


"Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art."
Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24788 is a reply to message #24781 ] Sat, 12 March 2011 00:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar medusa  is currently offline medusa
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Do we have any information about the kind of wax printer that is being used?

also, re the hallmarking, in the UK items under 7 gms don't need to be hallmarked, but anything over that, you can't technically sell it as silver without a hallmark.

You can have 925 as part of your wax model, but that is NOT a hallmark and it's actually pretty meaningless. If you have a hallmark which is the stamp from an assay office and a purity mark cast into your silver item, then you are risking prison.

There are ways around it, you can just sell it as silver coloured metal or say it isn't hallmarked but guaranteed to be sterling silver. Anyone making stuff in silver regularly would be as well to get registered with an assay office but one offs can also be hallmarked. not sure how much that costs though.


gentle-medusa.com
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24805 is a reply to message #24788 ] Sun, 13 March 2011 22:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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Yep, as long as a silver item is under 7.78g (~0.7cc) it won't need to be hallmarked.

Hallmark pricing can be found via the Sheffield Assay Office Pricing page and the good news is that the prices have gone down since last year when I last cheked Smile
Re: Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement. [message #24807 is a reply to message #24805 ] Sun, 13 March 2011 22:28 UTC Go to previous message
avatar medusa  is currently offline medusa
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not that cheap when you take into consideration the £16 minimum charge.

Plus the cost of registering went up by about 50% in 2010


gentle-medusa.com

 
   
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