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Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23665] Thu, 10 February 2011 15:07 UTC Go to next message
avatar dizingof is currently offline dizingof
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My last order arrived...

The 'Proof of concept' in full color - an exciting modeling concept/idea to transfer any low-poly cube modeling into fully textured organic model without that tedious UV unwrapping process.

For this idea, to cut short the R&D, i've used a model from Google's Sketchup which thou is a public domain repository this specific model is a copyrighted WOW character.

Its great to see an idea that works and materialized using 3D printing - i believe with this process anyone can now turn a low poly cube modeling into a fantastic looking Full Color 3D printed model - it could even be suited for kids.



The full color model arrived with a very darken colors - the following pics were pre-processed with an added high brightness - since with the native pics you wont have been able to see much of the details/colors.

I don't know if its the wax coatings that killed the colors or my bad.
(the textures were set to high contrast/brightness but still the result is a bad print - plus it's beyond me why shapeways sent it broken in the first place and issued refund at the same time)

Anyway i'll re-order again this time with even higher contrast /brightness colors.

This is an example of a cube modeling , low poly - only 1727 triangles:
http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/war-mammoth.jpg



Transferred into fully textured 320k poly model:

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0003-2.jpg

with Flash:

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0004.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0035.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0037.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0045.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0017-1.jpg



The clearing hole was filled with clear epoxy and flooded the carved logo ..
Too bad the model isn't fully coated this way even for an extra $.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0032.jpg






And this is the 'Fun Boy' ring - originally was 18.5mm diameter - i was hoping for a 0.3-0.5mm shrinkage in the oven but it shrank by 1.3mm .. I'll reorder it again probably in Gold plated.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0018.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0027.jpg

http://www.3Dizingof.com


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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23709 is a reply to message #23665 ] Thu, 10 February 2011 23:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar akeno is currently offline akeno
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You mean by taking it from WoW Model viewer, connecting the vertex, applying the already pre existing texture and then printing it, claiming full recreation? The polys are the same. Exactly. Give or take a "smooth" command such in previous thread. Yeah!!! owait.. Rolling Eyes Cool. I guess.

[Updated on: Thu, 10 February 2011 23:58 UTC]

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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23712 is a reply to message #23665 ] Fri, 11 February 2011 02:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof is currently offline dizingof
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Yep its a very cool stuff.

This cute model and many others can be found here
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=51dd32c84 bfdac524bf0eef83f5065cb&prevstart=36

As i've stated many times.. the model in itself isn't the issue, the process is. (well for me at least)

If you have the tool to make the "smooth command" while retaining the texture exactly in its place without the smudging or artifacts please share - it could help a lot

http://www.3Dizingof.com


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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23714 is a reply to message #23712 ] Fri, 11 February 2011 03:43 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bitstoatoms is currently offline bitstoatoms
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Hey Dizingof,

Interesting experiment, thanks for sharing.
I saw a post where Dotsan put the full color print in the microwave, which melts the wax a little to get the colors to even/brighten up a bit.

Might be worth a try.

As far as sending broken they would have though you would be excited to see, plus it give you a chance to iterate the process.

Cheers
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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23715 is a reply to message #23665 ] Fri, 11 February 2011 04:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof is currently offline dizingof
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Hey drscott,

I did try the Microwave trick, it didn't work, colors remain dark.
What worked for me in past is a clear epoxy spray - i will try it later.

I've asked support for my next tests to ask the production guys not to use the wax coating and was told it can be done (for a clear white and vivid colors prints ) - i'll share when i get these results.

http://www.3Dizingof.com


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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23722 is a reply to message #23715 ] Fri, 11 February 2011 16:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Drawn-Steel Hero is currently offline Drawn-Steel Hero
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That looks really cool.
And yeah, I do like the idea of allowing the sandstone to be supplied untreated; I wouldn't mind trying it myself sometime, but I'm not a fan of the idea of having it coated in wax; I have a feeling something like Future would work equally well as an alternative coating, giving a similar brightening effect with an acrylic finish rather than wax.
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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23762 is a reply to message #23722 ] Sat, 12 February 2011 21:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Magic is currently offline Magic
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I agree. Shapeways research team should find a better alternative than wax coating for the finish of Sandstone.
Something that does not get scratched with finger nail and that does not alter the white color too much.
And what about some polishing for removing the stepping artefact a little bit and perhaps give a kind of "velvet" effect?
Smile

So many things to design, so little time...
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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23861 is a reply to message #23762 ] Tue, 15 February 2011 05:14 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof is currently offline dizingof
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Magic wrote on Sat, 12 February 2011 21:39

I agree. Shapeways research team should find a better alternative than wax coating for the finish of Sandstone.
Something that does not get scratched with finger nail and that does not alter the white color too much.
And what about some polishing for removing the stepping artefact a little bit and perhaps give a kind of "velvet" effect?
Smile


Why stop there... We want Porcelain ! Very Happy


http://www.3Dizingof.com


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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23871 is a reply to message #23665 ] Tue, 15 February 2011 13:45 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar akeno is currently offline akeno
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dizing, my post was sarcastic as you are still claiming to build these models yourself when you are not. "More testing - cube modeling to organic + mesh manipulation" for your latest uploads.

these "cube modeling models" you should just rename to an export since you didn't do them yourself and you are trying to get credit for it. your other thread was a prime example of this. it would be more honorable to call it a "model export test" then to have people think you properly modeled these yourself. as I stated before, previous models texture maps line up exactly polygon wise in the model viewer. I don't have much more to say about this subject.

if you are referring to the "organic mesh" as a defense, maya does the same thing with the smooth command and does not mess up the verts, texure map, or anything. its literally one button.

just disappointing, really. no offense.

[Updated on: Tue, 15 February 2011 13:47 UTC]

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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23878 is a reply to message #23665 ] Tue, 15 February 2011 14:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof is currently offline dizingof
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none taken.. i keep saying it again and again it's my own personal research - if your know-how exceeds mine then good for you

I'm sure your 4 models are a result of years of study and not a "one click" stuff.

I'll keep on ordering and researching with these cute models and you're welcome to compare notes.. Very Happy



http://www.3Dizingof.com


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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23883 is a reply to message #23665 ] Tue, 15 February 2011 16:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Ok, we all know the Mammoth is a WoW model. The models are not for sale. So Dizingof is not profiting off of Blizards IP (atleast not on shapeways). So lets keep that aspect out of the discussion please. Seeing these are to demonstrate smoothing a model in Sketchup without losing the associated texture mapping, how bout you tell us how exactly you do that in Sketchup. This could be very useful for someone that makes a model, has polys to play around with, and wants a less polyed looking (more organic looking) model without having to redo the texture map and works with Sketchup (a cheap to free alternative to pricey modeling software such as Maya).

The Mad Moder
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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #23951 is a reply to message #23665 ] Thu, 17 February 2011 07:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar chaitanyak is currently offline chaitanyak
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looks so awesome!.. great job!
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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #24193 is a reply to message #23665 ] Thu, 24 February 2011 12:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof is currently offline dizingof
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Here is the model coated with 2 coats of clear lacquer fast-dry spray - 20 minutes apart and from a distance of 20cm for a nice even coat.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0004-1.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0001.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0007-2.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0008-1.jpg

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j322/dizingof/PICT0006-1.jpg

The shiny gloss gives the the model the look & feel of porcelain.


I've been told by customer support that shapeways looking into the yellowish color on full color sandstone due to curing the model in the oven - they are about to change that.

more to come.. Wink

http://www.3Dizingof.com


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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #24208 is a reply to message #24193 ] Thu, 24 February 2011 17:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff is currently offline stop4stuff
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That looks great.

Is it the new model (without wax you were expecting) or the original overcoated?
Either way the colours seem to be a bit brighter on the laquered model.

Just getting into full colour sandstone myself, so any insights would be very welcome Wink

Cheers,
Paul
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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #24212 is a reply to message #24208 ] Thu, 24 February 2011 18:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof is currently offline dizingof
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stop4stuff wrote on Thu, 24 February 2011 17:28

That looks great.

Is it the new model (without wax you were expecting) or the original overcoated?
Either way the colours seem to be a bit brighter on the laquered model.

Just getting into full colour sandstone myself, so any insights would be very welcome Wink

Cheers,
Paul


Same model, the lacquer did brighten up a bit the colors.
Yeah i noticed many Shapers started looking into full colors designs. cool.

Apparently there is no such thing as full color sandstone coated with wax... i don't know how that term came to be.

Here is a quote from customer support explaining once and for all why there is a yellowish-white instead of pure white.

Quote:


I have received some useful information over the yellow colouring on
white parts of sandstone models.

You had provided two examples showing a clear difference in 'whiteness'.
This is understandable as we did used to process these differently.

After the infusion with XLA the models need to be cured in an oven. In
the early days we used to under-cure models which left them brittle and
caused staining as the infusion would not dry completely. No we always
cure the parts for longer and this makes the models more durable and
there is no staining but it does cause white sections to turn yellow.

The good news is that we are working together with the suppliers of the
XLA infusion and Z-Corp printers to come up with a different
formula.....watch this spot!




So its good news but this is from today's email :
Quote:


at present there is no timescale for completion of this process change



It would seem thou that some Shapers were recently "lucky" with their full color prints..



I placed a new order of full color sanstone and can only hope to be also "lucky" this time around..









http://www.3Dizingof.com


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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #24213 is a reply to message #24212 ] Thu, 24 February 2011 18:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff is currently offline stop4stuff
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I'm not sure where 'wax' came from either... must have read it along the way. The XLA MSDS reads nearly as scary as Dihydrogen Monoxide Wink

Well, here's hoping I can get to experience 'proper' white with full colour sandstone.

Cheers,
Paul.


[edit]... hang on... I remember talking with a painter, to make white look more brilliant white he used to add blue to 'white' paint... would the same work in this case. Yellow (in terms of RGB) is red and green, adding blue may bring the balance back to white... just a thought.

[Updated on: Thu, 24 February 2011 19:14 UTC]

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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #24232 is a reply to message #24212 ] Fri, 25 February 2011 01:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi is currently offline Kaetemi
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dizingof wrote on Thu, 24 February 2011 18:32


Apparently there is no such thing as full color sandstone coated with wax... i don't know how that term came to be.


"Infused".
Want pictures of what the "wax" looks like when it gets stuck in not-easily cleanable spaces?


The last line of this quote straight from the fullcolor material page would probably be where it comes from:
Quote:

Your Sandstone products are printed with clear binder and infused with XLA form. This gives the strength to the product. This process requires the designs to go into a oven. Heating these might change the "white" color into shades of yellow. The intensity can vary based on the shape of your design. It can vary per product and/or within a product.
The Sandstone products (not the Full color Sandstone) do not have a wax finish so it is perfect for post processing.
Although other sources state that the processing for sandstone and fullcolor is just the same? Confused

Now I'm confused.

[Updated on: Fri, 25 February 2011 01:29 UTC]

Kaetemi
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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #24235 is a reply to message #23665 ] Fri, 25 February 2011 08:14 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof is currently offline dizingof
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Yesterday i tried to place an order with another 3D printing service for a full color model (they have a free worldwide shipping offer ending March 15th) - but their automated system didn't accept my WRL file..
so i'm waiting for a human to evaluate the cost of printing it.


It's probably going to be a bit more expensive then Shapeways but it would be cool to check how other 3D printing services are capable of printing pure white, vivid colors and even with only a 2mm wall thickness as a required minimum (!?)


I'll share my findings.

http://www.3Dizingof.com


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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #24245 is a reply to message #23665 ] Fri, 25 February 2011 13:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Please do, I'm very tempted to take advantage of the free shipping on a titanium print. I've just been too lazy lately to make my model more suited for titanium.

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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #24250 is a reply to message #24245 ] Fri, 25 February 2011 14:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Ray716 is currently offline Ray716
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youknowwho4eva, who is doing titanium prints?

Ray

www.RayTomlinDesigns.com
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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #24251 is a reply to message #23665 ] Fri, 25 February 2011 14:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva is currently offline Youknowwho4eva
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Re: Proof of Concept + Fan Boy ring [message #24269 is a reply to message #24251 ] Sat, 26 February 2011 01:13 UTC Go to previous message
avatar Ray716 is currently offline Ray716
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Ohhh Thanks Smile

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