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Check if an item is really printable [message #18294] Fri, 24 September 2010 13:49 UTC Go to next message
avatar woody64  is currently offline woody64
Messages: 449
Registered: November 2008
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I don't know if that is a problem for shapeways, but maybe it would improve the effort for items which got denied later on.

I usually design a lot of items before I do an order to test the new designs.
It usually happens that some items are denied for printing (for example because of walls too thin)

There may arise 2 problems with this way of working:
- other customer order the item and get a printing denied
- I order a list of new items and some items were denied which usually means this items have to be reordered with the next order. I normally order once a month and that delays these items a while.

Maybe there could be some service like a test print to a very reduced price which only results in a check of the printing department:
- no material costs
- no shipping costs
- reduced handling of printing denied with other customers then the item owner
- no dissatisfaction when a normal customer orders and gets a printing denied later on

Any further comments on this?

Woody64



More then 7500 items sold over SW (but still a hobby)
Minifigcustomsin3d at: Facebook Flickr
References: 3d Printing Industries, CNN, J. Burks, Ugly Duckling, M.Evans, Stop Motion Film,Computer BILD
More then 270 shop items (more then 146 already printed once)
Re: Check if an item is really printable [message #18535 is a reply to message #18294 ] Wed, 29 September 2010 08:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar kontor_apart  is currently offline kontor_apart
Messages: 159
Registered: February 2010
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There should be at least the possibility (a checkable option, perhaps) to request a full acceptance check including wall thickness and whatever other manual checks.

Also, for co-creator items, it should be possible to correct errors after the initial upload, something along the line of

- upload model
- - Shapeways performs a full acceptance check
- - designer is notified of any errors
- upload updated model
- - Shapeways performs full acceptance check
- - ...

Right now, the order is just cancelled which is not the right thing to do.

Re: Check if an item is really printable [message #22309 is a reply to message #18294 ] Sat, 08 January 2011 00:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Registered: December 2009
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I actually suggested this privately to Shapeways quite a while ago, after getting some error emails when customers ordered models that broke or couldn't print. It's one thing when it's your own order but when a customer orders and this happens it quite frustrating and a little embarrassing.

My solution was to charge a nominal flat fee to visually inspect the model upload. The auto check just fails a lot.

I think it is impractical to ask Shapeways to make a test print of each model that comes in, especially when there are so many different materials.

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Check if an item is really printable [message #22506 is a reply to message #22309 ] Wed, 12 January 2011 14:15 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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I agree. I'd be happy to pay for the acceptance check as a separate service.

Sometimes it is a bit hard to decide what 'extra' stuff to buy to fill up the $25 minimum order, just so you can check the printability of a $3 model.

I also think there should be a "flag" on models that indicates whether they've already been successfully printed in a material. This would save some time and confusion when a model that has worked in the past starts getting rejected. Of course, the flag should be cleared if a model is updated.


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Check if an item is really printable [message #22525 is a reply to message #22506 ] Wed, 12 January 2011 18:53 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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stonysmith wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 14:15

...
I also think there should be a "flag" on models that indicates whether they've already been successfully printed in a material. This would save some time and confusion when a model that has worked in the past starts getting rejected. Of course, the flag should be cleared if a model is updated.


Exactly! I recently had a model successfully printed and mailed to me in s/steel. A few weeks later I got an email telling me that it had been changed to 'view only' because someone had ordered it in s/s and the model couldn't be printed! I had a picture of it in s/s on my model page!!

After Shapeways pointed out to me the problems they'd had with it I had to agree that I'd basically got lucky when I first printed it and that as Shapeways grows they can longer take the chance on what can potentially be problem models... I've been told that when one model breaks it ruins the whole batch of models in that "run".

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Check if an item is really printable [message #23845 is a reply to message #22525 ] Tue, 15 February 2011 00:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar DarrenAbbey  is currently offline DarrenAbbey
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[ I've been told that when one model breaks it ruins the whole batch of models in that "run". ]

I've recieved this response as well. I must not understand the production process sufficiently, as this doesn't make sense to me.
Re: Check if an item is really printable [message #23850 is a reply to message #23845 ] Tue, 15 February 2011 02:36 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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It took me a while to realize what they were talking about when they said "destroys a batch", but after watching a couple of the videos, I came to understand it.

Think for a minute of a bubble-jet printer. As the print head moves back and forth, there is a bit of friction betwen the print head and the paper. But, the paper is held securely on the sides, and won't shift.

For the Shapeways printers, the "head" is considerably larger, some 6-8 inches wide instead of the 1/2 inch for a bubble jet. Also remember that your model is sitting in the middle of a lake of "support material" which is essentially a liquid.

If you have some part of your model that is too small/thin, the odds are high that even the small amount of friction of the head sweeping across it will cause it to move within the gel, forcing that sliver out of position.

This not only prevents the next layer of your model from aligning correctly, but it also runs a high risk of shifting far enough to bump into some other person's model.

If that sliver of solid material does a "surfboard" effect up and into some other model being printed, then it could even cause the head to "bump" and really make a mess out of the entire tray.

Does that help explain it?

[Updated on: Tue, 15 February 2011 02:39 UTC]


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Check if an item is really printable [message #23856 is a reply to message #23850 ] Tue, 15 February 2011 03:46 UTC Go to previous message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
Messages: 966
Registered: May 2009
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No liquids involved, the most used systems at SW put a flat and very thing layer of plastic (or plaster) dust with a wide spreader like a scanner head put upside down (paper in table, scanner points down at table), then shot laser (or make a pass with an inkjet head, like plotters printing over non moving paper) to melt (or glue&tint) it. Other machines just extrude resins that are cured by light or hot plastic, and there no parts will share support other than the base surface.

But the principle is what stonysmith said, once you note the liquid/dust difference. If a part gets lose, when another layer of dust is applied, it gets trapped in the spreader and destroys the pile of free dust and weak parts in it, thus forcing the machine to stop.

 
   
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