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Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22305] Fri, 07 January 2011 23:43 UTC Go to next message
avatar Schmiegel  is currently offline Schmiegel
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It appears the interactive 3d Java preview is gone?

I only can guess what may be the reason. But if it's 3D grabbers, would it be possible to have an automatically generated simple animated gif instead?

I miss the preview as I did not care about the object orientation at time of upload Smile
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22313 is a reply to message #22305 ] Sat, 08 January 2011 00:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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It got broke in the last update for looking at your own models and logged in, it works ok on other people's models when logged in and your own when logged out... a fix should be coming - see; http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=4213&a mp;start=0&
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22337 is a reply to message #22305 ] Sat, 08 January 2011 22:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Well, I don't miss it. Never once got it to work at home or at work...


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22339 is a reply to message #22337 ] Sat, 08 January 2011 23:39 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar GHP  is currently offline GHP
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It is a very good idea to use it on any model that MeshMedic may have modified (e.g. for unification of overlapping meshes or correction of non-manifold problems). Sometimes MeshMedic produces undesirable results in the process. Presumably you shouldn't have to worry about this if your model is manifold and unified to begin with, although differences in precision mean that some models may pass as manifold in one application (e.g. MeshLab) and fail in another (e.g. Blender).
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22403 is a reply to message #22305 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 12:33 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bvr  is currently offline bvr
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The 3d preview has never worked for me either. Would it be possible to run a blender script to obtain the images required to create a flash based object vr?
bvr


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Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22404 is a reply to message #22403 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 13:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bartv  is currently offline bartv
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Yes, we've looked in to that option. The biggest issue is rendering time - a simple turntable animation with a few extra viewing angles along the z-axis very quickly adds up to 200+ frames to render. It isn't completely gone from our wishlist though Smile

Bart


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Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22413 is a reply to message #22404 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 14:30 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bvr  is currently offline bvr
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bartv,
Does the 3d preview need to be that smooth?
bvr


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Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22415 is a reply to message #22413 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 14:53 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bartv  is currently offline bartv
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Maybe not; would a simple OpenGL-style render work for you?

Bart


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Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22417 is a reply to message #22415 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 15:00 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bvr  is currently offline bvr
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bartv,
Could you point us to an example?
bvr


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Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22421 is a reply to message #22417 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 16:15 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bartv  is currently offline bartv
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Sure, here's a quick test:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/150286/Shapeways/HTML_OpenGL/3DNP_lo ader.html

It's slow to load, so be patient. Once the model starts turning you can drag it with your mouse.

This is a simple render. It only took a few seconds to generate.

Bart

[Updated on: Mon, 10 January 2011 16:17 UTC]


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Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22425 is a reply to message #22421 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 16:47 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bvr  is currently offline bvr
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bartv,
That works great.
bvr


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Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22432 is a reply to message #22421 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 22:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stonysmith  is currently offline stonysmith
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Bart.. What did you use to generate the render?


Patience, Persistance, Politeness - the 3Ps will help us get us to Perfect Printed Products
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22433 is a reply to message #22432 ] Mon, 10 January 2011 23:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar gratrix  is currently offline gratrix
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Maybe one for the future, but how about WebGL as an option?

I'm currently playing with it, and in fact I'm using it to generate my models on shapeways!

http://gratrix.net/polyhedra/webgl/
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22443 is a reply to message #22432 ] Tue, 11 January 2011 07:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bartv  is currently offline bartv
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stonysmith wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 22:48

Bart.. What did you use to generate the render?


I used a script called '3DNP' for Blender:

http://www.thoro.de/page/3dnp-introduction-en

Bart


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Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22444 is a reply to message #22433 ] Tue, 11 January 2011 07:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bartv  is currently offline bartv
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gratrix wrote on Mon, 10 January 2011 23:09

Maybe one for the future, but how about WebGL as an option?

I'm currently playing with it, and in fact I'm using it to generate my models on shapeways!

http://gratrix.net/polyhedra/webgl/


Who knows! At the moment WebGL browser support isn't good enough yet though.

For really large models (500k polygons) this may not be the best option, as you'll first have to download a *huge* 3d file. I'm guessing that displaying a prerendered movie is a lot faster?

Bart


Community Manager Europe | Shapeways
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22463 is a reply to message #22444 ] Tue, 11 January 2011 14:20 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar gratrix  is currently offline gratrix
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Another problem I suppose with the WebGL (or some kind of render plugin) is that it might be easy to extract the model data which may not be desirable.

I do like the "it just works" of 3DNP though, and it was quick for me to load - in fact at first I did not realize it was a set of pictures.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 January 2011 14:22 UTC]

Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22471 is a reply to message #22463 ] Tue, 11 January 2011 15:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Kaetemi  is currently offline Kaetemi
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I'd prefer prerendered images as well.


Kaetemi
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22481 is a reply to message #22305 ] Tue, 11 January 2011 20:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I like this, Bart, and the WebGL option too. (The next generation of browsers mostly seem to support WebGL, so we may be open to that approach sometime this year.)

I am planning to research both options and see what I can put together.

-Ben
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22484 is a reply to message #22305 ] Tue, 11 January 2011 22:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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I've already introduced a simple full color 360° GIF made from only 12 pics.. on my recent models.

I've suggested that back on November last year:
http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=2104 6&#msg_21046

I can tell by the sales chart it works.
It sure helps better visualize the model for customers even if it's only a rendering.

example:

http://www.makeagif.com/media/12-28-2010/s2i9M8.gif






http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22488 is a reply to message #22305 ] Wed, 12 January 2011 01:19 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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Hi, Dizingof, I just recently did the same thing to one of my models:

index.php?t=getfile&id=6567&private=0


Glenn


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Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22489 is a reply to message #22305 ] Wed, 12 January 2011 01:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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Hi Glenn, Nice GIF Wink

(when rendering make sure your lights are equal on all sides)


Cheers



http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22491 is a reply to message #22489 ] Wed, 12 January 2011 01:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar bitstoatoms  is currently offline bitstoatoms
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nice

[Updated on: Wed, 12 January 2011 01:53 UTC]

Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22520 is a reply to message #22305 ] Wed, 12 January 2011 16:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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These look good. I'd like to streamline the process and offer it as a feature for all shop owners, so your input will help me to design the feature. Thanks!

-Ben
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22524 is a reply to message #22489 ] Wed, 12 January 2011 18:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar lensman  is currently offline lensman
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dizingof wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 01:29

Hi Glenn, Nice GIF Wink

(when rendering make sure your lights are equal on all sides)


Cheers





Thanks, and yeah, good point.

Glenn


Glenn ------ My Website Third Dimension Jewellery
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22543 is a reply to message #22520 ] Wed, 12 January 2011 22:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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horst wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 16:08

These look good. I'd like to streamline the process and offer it as a feature for all shop owners, so your input will help me to design the feature. Thanks!

-Ben

Time ago, someone requested being able to select the axis of the main preview, as sometimes the items appear on the side, or from the back, showing an useless preview. Some zooming/camera-to-object distance control too, as in some case the previews waste a lot of space with background. Then, once the preview shows the model right, animation feature or multiview (from 8 corners of a cube, eg) can start to burn CPU cycles with extra renders.
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22546 is a reply to message #22305 ] Thu, 13 January 2011 02:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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This may sound unnecessarily specific, but I have a pretty clear idea of what I'd like to see. An OpenGL-to-bitmap based render would work if it was done correctly (AA, shadow mapping), but setting that up would be harder than modifying the existing Blender script.

It looks like the current preview, which looks very nice, is using ray-traced reflections and shadows that are CPU hungry. A good approximation could be made creating a lighting dome using about ten lights with 256 pixel shadow maps, and one key light with a 1024 map with less blurring for a harder shadow. Make the ambient light dome slightly bluish and the key light slightly yellowish to simulate outdoor lighting. It will look very natural and comfortable, as well as providing subtle angle-dependent hue variation that brings the shape out more.

This setup will render 10-20 times faster than the ray-traced equivalent, and about 100-300 times faster than using ambient occlusion. Most people will not be able to tell the difference, anyway.

On the model page, a simple Y-up or Z-up radio button can define orientation with little fuss or interface work. 36 slices would be sufficient for a rotation. I'd much rather see Flash rotation (using JPEG internally) so we're not limited to 256 colors, which is kind of silly in 2011. I know you don't want to use Flash because it opens up a whole can of worms and isn't iPhone compatible, but a QuicktimeVR-type slider would be easy to implement. Since this probably isn't possible, it would be pretty trivial to do the JPEG swaps in Javascript.

I hope you find my suggestions helpful.


Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22549 is a reply to message #22546 ] Thu, 13 January 2011 04:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar stannum  is currently offline stannum
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aeron203 the blend files were posted time ago, so you can confirm what is used (raytraced AO, IIRC and based in the look... yeah, old manual shadow buffer AO will probably do it faster).

And the old 3DNP is image based and requires no Flash at all, just JavaScript. It swaps files, just like many map apps tile and move them around. Really, give it a try with the provided examples.
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22550 is a reply to message #22305 ] Thu, 13 January 2011 05:01 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aeron203  is currently offline aeron203
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Yeah, now I recall they posted the Blender scene for us to play with. It occurs to me now I could have just edited that file and posted to that thread. Anyway, I think we can safely drop the AO since that's really what is causing the render time issue. Careful lighting with shadow mapping can look good. I know it's super old school, but so is the basic Javascript image swap! Smile

Tons of people would love Flash, and it's really good at streaming image sequences progressively with such slick interfaces. I'd also like to be able to embed Flash but aside from the compatibility issues it's so open-ended you get the Myspace-style graphic craziness from users. Still, it would be great to have that kind of freedom with our product pages, no?

[Updated on: Thu, 13 January 2011 05:05 UTC]


Aaron - 40westdesigns.com/blog
Re: Animated 3D preview gone? [message #22603 is a reply to message #22305 ] Fri, 14 January 2011 06:50 UTC Go to previous message
avatar stop4stuff  is currently offline stop4stuff
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The 3d mode hasn't gone... but the usual method of making it happen has. For those who really want to see their own models in 3d mode, add "?mode=3d" after the .html part of the model url, e.g. http://www.shapeways.com/model/200070/chainmaille_dice_bag.h tml?mode=3d

Smile

 
   
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