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Designing dice for dice snobs [message #16979] Mon, 30 August 2010 22:44 UTC Go to next message
avatar gumball  is currently offline gumball
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I am a dice collector. My collection of unusual dice has grown by leaps and bounds since finding Shapeways.

I am also a dice snob. I expect my favorites to be constructed correctly. Examine a professional D6. Opposite faces of a D6 should add up to 7. 6 opposite 1, 2 opposite 5 and 3 opposite 4. For a D8 the opposite sides should add up to 9, D20 should add up to 21. You get the idea.

I received a die in my latest order that is very unusual and interesting. However the numbering is off. I'll keep it in my bag of unusual dice for gaming, but I know in my heart of hearts I won't ever use it in a game. *sigh*

Brian
Self Proclaimed Dice Snob
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #16980 is a reply to message #16979 ] Mon, 30 August 2010 23:30 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar gibell  is currently offline gibell
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I would guess it might be difficult to make a fair die using 3D printing. Particularly some of the designs where the numbers are large and a big part of the design, doesn't this create weighting imbalances because there is more material in some places than others? Even the layer alignment in a 3D printer could cause weighting differences.

In professional dice, don't they carefully fill in the pips so all the faces have the same weight?

I once attended an entertaining talk by Louis Zocchi, who gave all sorts of reasons why his dice were superior to all others.
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #16981 is a reply to message #16980 ] Mon, 30 August 2010 23:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oddly, I'm less interested in fair, then how it looks.
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #16982 is a reply to message #16979 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 00:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dizingof  is currently offline dizingof
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Here is one for your collection... Wink

An ancient Hebrew dice

index.php?t=getfile&id=4810&private=0



- Enjoy !


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #16983 is a reply to message #16982 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 00:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Nice! It looks like you just used the first 12 letters of the alphabet and not the usual way of representing numbers over 12. Properly, after י should come יא and then יב.

That isn't ancient Hebrew, it's still used in modern times (and that's a modern font, and I might even recognize it). I've been pondering looking for (or drawing) a good paleo-Hebrew in the style of the Hasmonean period to make a dreidel. (In the Hasmonean period they were already using letters similar to the modern ones, but a lot of coins and such deliberately used archaizing letters in the old paleo-Hebrew alphabet). Meanwhile I just have a normal one, for now.

You're probably right that *really* fair dice are beyond the capabilities of 3D printing (though I bet that "reasonably" fair dice are perfectly possible, depending on your definition of "reasonably"), but it's nice to stick with shapes that are at least conceivably fair.
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #16984 is a reply to message #16982 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 01:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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dizingof wrote on Tue, 31 August 2010 00:52

Here is one for your collection... Wink



Wow!! Nice job!!

Are the Hebrew symbols on the correct faces? Very Happy

I wanna design some dice too, to keep the collectors happy! Smug
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17019 is a reply to message #16979 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 12:13 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I believe all my die are properly faced. It's my goal to be as accurate to the law of die as possible. I've also thought about the weighted die issue. Haven't done anything in my designs about it, but have considered it Razz. Actually I have one that is purposely weighted in my shop Rolling Eyes . Any ways. I have an idea for a die. Gonna work on that now.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17021 is a reply to message #16984 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 12:22 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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gibell wrote on Tue, 31 August 2010 01:02

dizingof wrote on Tue, 31 August 2010 00:52

Here is one for your collection... Wink



Wow!! Nice job!!

Are the Hebrew symbols on the correct faces? Very Happy

I wanna design some dice too, to keep the collectors happy! Smug



Yes they are - it took some time to make sure.. (my buddy Google helped out)


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17022 is a reply to message #16983 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 12:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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clsn wrote on Tue, 31 August 2010 00:59

Nice! It looks like you just used the first 12 letters of the alphabet and not the usual way of representing numbers over 12. Properly, after י should come יא and then יב.

That isn't ancient Hebrew, it's still used in modern times (and that's a modern font, and I might even recognize it). I've been pondering looking for (or drawing) a good paleo-Hebrew in the style of the Hasmonean period to make a dreidel. (In the Hasmonean period they were already using letters similar to the modern ones, but a lot of coins and such deliberately used archaizing letters in the old paleo-Hebrew alphabet). Meanwhile I just have a normal one, for now.

You're probably right that *really* fair dice are beyond the capabilities of 3D printing (though I bet that "reasonably" fair dice are perfectly possible, depending on your definition of "reasonably"), but it's nice to stick with shapes that are at least conceivably fair.


Trust me its ancient Hebrew.
Modern prints and books mostly use Arial (Hebrew) fonts.
This font was used and still been used for generations in the "old testament" Bible.

As for the 11th and 12th representation of numbers - this dice
was used for learning - few of these dice represent the whole Hebrew alpha bet.

If the collector likes it , i'll have to make some more to complete the collection Very Happy


Cheers,
Dizingof





http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17025 is a reply to message #17022 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 13:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar clsn  is currently offline clsn
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Looks a lot like http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/masterfont/turmus-mf/ ; am I right? Sure, fonts have changed over the years (though the venerable Frank-Ruehl is still wildly popular in books), and I suppose you're right that the basic alphabet is still about the same as it was >2000 years ago, but the particular font here is fairly modern vintage (it's plainly heavily influenced by Frank-Ruehl, for example).

I thought you were implying "Ancient Hebrew" like in http://www.historian.net/siloam.htm or something, before the change to the Aramaic-based square Hebrew. (Like I wrote to you, I was thinking of doing a dreidel with those older characters... Even though they were already using square (modern-like) Hebrew in the Hasmonean period, a lot of Hasmonean coinage and such uses the older, archaizing script as a nationalistic statement.)

Anyway, alphabets and specifically Hebrew are another of my many interests, and you happened to trigger a lecture from me, sorry... Smile
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17033 is a reply to message #16982 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 15:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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dizingof wrote on Tue, 31 August 2010 00:52

Here is one for your collection... Wink


It's cool, but my dice have to be "working" dice. I don't know the letters to be able to use it easily. The shape is nice and if it had roman numerals....


Youknowwho4eva wrote on Tue, 31 August 2010 12:13

Actually I have one that is purposely weighted in my shop Rolling Eyes


Problem for me with weighted dice are that most people are thinking craps when they design them, so we get dice that land on 2 and 5 like yours. I want either character builder dice that land on sixes all the time, or Champions dice that land on 1's. That and dice that don't cost $87 in stainless. Gah! (did I forget to mention that I'm also a cheapass bastard?)
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17034 is a reply to message #16979 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 15:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I was thinking of making it a co-creator. Pick what you want it to land on. I drew those well before stainless.

This ones only $10 in stainless Rolling Eyes

[Updated on: Tue, 31 August 2010 15:38 UTC]


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17038 is a reply to message #16979 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 15:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Drawn-SteelHero  is currently offline Drawn-SteelHero
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If you're willing to get stuff that isn't stainless steel or custom-designed, eM4 Miniatures do a lot of interesting dice, including a set of 2 loaded dice (scroll down just over halfway), and you can specify a pair that roll 6s, a pair that roll 1s, or one of each. They also have matching normal dice for your friends to check you're being honest (just practice your sleight of hand!). Wink

Andy
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17049 is a reply to message #16979 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 19:51 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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There you go... A Roman Dice

index.php?t=getfile&id=4817&private=0


Cheers,
Dizingof

[Updated on: Tue, 31 August 2010 19:52 UTC]


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17051 is a reply to message #17038 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 20:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Drawn-Steel Hero wrote on Tue, 31 August 2010 15:58

If you're willing to get stuff that isn't stainless steel or custom-designed, eM4 Miniatures do a lot of interesting dice, including a set of 2 loaded dice (scroll down just over halfway), and you can specify a pair that roll 6s, a pair that roll 1s, or one of each. They also have matching normal dice for your friends to check you're being honest (just practice your sleight of hand!). Wink

Andy


Nice site, I've order off there in the past. Can't use those loaded ones, my gaming pals are too savy Very Happy

dizingof wrote on Tue, 31 August 2010 19:51

There you go... A Roman Dice Cheers, Dizingof



Very nice. As soon as I can talk the little lady in to letting me get one die for $58.60, I'll get that!
Rolling Eyes
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17068 is a reply to message #17051 ] Tue, 31 August 2010 23:55 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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gumball wrote on Tue, 31 August 2010 20:09


dizingof wrote on Tue, 31 August 2010 19:51

There you go... A Roman Dice Cheers, Dizingof



Very nice. As soon as I can talk the little lady in to letting me get one die for $58.60, I'll get that!
Rolling Eyes


ahh .. sorry about that.. forgot to hollow it Wink

There you go .. A Roman Dice

Stainless Steel will cost you $ 32.40

My markup is only $5.. Rolling Eyes

(Volume: 2.74 cm³ )


Cheers,
Dizingof


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17240 is a reply to message #16979 ] Fri, 03 September 2010 21:04 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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2 new Dices..

Octahedral Dice

index.php?t=getfile&id=4876&private=0


and 30 sides Dice



Cheers,
Dizingof


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17242 is a reply to message #17240 ] Fri, 03 September 2010 21:12 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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dizingof wrote on Fri, 03 September 2010 21:04

2 new Dices..

Octahedral Dice



I'll probably get this one eventually . It looks like a D6, but the title is Octahedral, suggesting 8 sides. Which is it?

Brian

Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17243 is a reply to message #17242 ] Fri, 03 September 2010 21:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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gumball wrote on Fri, 03 September 2010 21:12

dizingof wrote on Fri, 03 September 2010 21:04

2 new Dices..

Octahedral Dice



I'll probably get this one eventually . It looks like a D6, but the title is Octahedral, suggesting 8 sides. Which is it?

Brian





its D6 , the shape is called "Octahedral Symmetry"

Btw, The first 2 dices were ordered yesterday - i thought it was you..


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17244 is a reply to message #17243 ] Fri, 03 September 2010 21:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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dizingof wrote on Fri, 03 September 2010 21:32


Btw, The first 2 dices were ordered yesterday - i thought it was you..



No, I will not be able to order anything till my Lulu.com revenues for the this month hit my Paypal account around the 17th. Then I'll have a whole $73.11! (I overspent last month and the little woman wasn't happy!)

Brian
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17245 is a reply to message #17244 ] Fri, 03 September 2010 21:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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gumball wrote on Fri, 03 September 2010 21:41

dizingof wrote on Fri, 03 September 2010 21:32


Btw, The first 2 dices were ordered yesterday - i thought it was you..



No, I will not be able to order anything till my Lulu.com revenues for the this month hit my Paypal account around the 17th. Then I'll have a whole $73.11! (I overspent last month and the little woman wasn't happy!)

Brian


Nice... so some one else ordered them.
I guess there is a market for uniquely designed dices. cool.


Cheers,
Dizingof


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17248 is a reply to message #16979 ] Sat, 04 September 2010 00:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I just stumbled on this page :
http://www.dicecollector.com/THE_DICE_THEME_SHAPEWAYS.html

Yippee for shapeways !

Nice collection .... hope to be there too Wink



http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17272 is a reply to message #16979 ] Sat, 04 September 2010 19:50 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Shapers.. here are 2 new more dices :


1. Fractal Dice.

index.php?t=getfile&id=4895&private=0


2. Gravity well Dice


now that all dices ideas are out of my system i'll move on Wink


Cheers,
Dizingof


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Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17276 is a reply to message #16979 ] Sat, 04 September 2010 21:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar euphy  is currently offline euphy
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gumball I don't think that's snobbery, that's just wanting a reasonable die. It's a bit like the ebay sellers who take a picture of a photo of a expensive watch, and then send the buyer the photo that they have bought. Bit different here because we have the chance to do a 3D view and check all the sides, but I would have hoped that a designer of dice would know the basic rules. Bit odd.

Besides, that the 3d viewer doesn't seem to work for me. Not bitter.

SN
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17296 is a reply to message #16979 ] Sun, 05 September 2010 18:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Sorry couldn't help my self .. this one for Google bot..

Collectible item, Swirl Dice

index.php?t=getfile&id=4900&private=0


Cheers,
Dizingof


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Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17336 is a reply to message #17296 ] Mon, 06 September 2010 16:44 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Gah!!!! Too many dice, not enough Paypal income!

Wow, I'm going to have a hard time choosing come the 17th.....
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17344 is a reply to message #17336 ] Mon, 06 September 2010 17:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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gumball wrote on Mon, 06 September 2010 16:44

Gah!!!! Too many dice, not enough Paypal income!

Wow, I'm going to have a hard time choosing come the 17th.....


Laughing

I seem to have a ton of new dice designs waiting to be modeled.. I'm adding approx 2 dices per day to my shop Shocked

Check out this new one , part of a line of sliced dices to be uploaded soon.

Tetrahedron Sliced Dice

index.php?t=getfile&id=4917&private=0

Btw, i was asked by one collector to allow not just the metal materials.. as cost of metal is a factor - so all plastic materials are also available.
(This way you can decide better what to re-order in metal)

Also, a designer's markup fee is the same no matter what material used.




-Enjoy !


Dizingof


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17348 is a reply to message #17344 ] Mon, 06 September 2010 18:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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To come back to the initial idea that opposite faces should always sum up to the maximum value plus one, I completely agree with this. Furthermore, for aesthetical reasons, and when possible (for a D6 for instance), I think that the numbers that have an 'orientation' (like arabic or roman numbers and unlike pips) should be always directed so that none has the same orientation (difficult to explain, see one of my D6 for a picture): since you cannot orient them all in the same direction, it is more "balanced" to orient none of them in the same direction. Does that make sense? Smile

Another remark about the well balanced dice: I have always thought that a D12 (dodechadron) - this time with opposite faces having the same value - is more reliable than a D6 (cube), for the following reasons:
- it rolls better since its shape is closer from a sphere
- when you are on one number you can go to any other number with a slight rotation: any number has all the other numbers as neighbours
- if there is a risk that the die is loaded then, since opposite faces have the same value, the effect is not as efficient (you make a face with a certain number more likely and the opposite face with the same number less likely).
Perhaps an idea for a new member in the dice family? Very Happy

[Updated on: Mon, 06 September 2010 21:49 UTC]

Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17349 is a reply to message #17348 ] Mon, 06 September 2010 19:25 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Sounds like a similar idea to that employed by eM-4 on one of their dice; because normal tetrahedral D4s aren't very ergonomic, they produce a D8 with the numbers 1-4 repeated twice.

Andy
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17356 is a reply to message #16979 ] Mon, 06 September 2010 21:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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nice dice Dizi, would have thought you'd have exhausted all your ideas for them with the number you've done Smile
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17365 is a reply to message #17356 ] Mon, 06 September 2010 23:58 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Shuggster wrote on Mon, 06 September 2010 21:32

nice dice Dizi, would have thought you'd have exhausted all your ideas for them with the number you've done Smile


Thanks

I'm puzzled my self.. they just keep coming Wink

The latest:

Octahedron Dice

index.php?t=getfile&id=4918&private=0


Hope you guys like them - please rate.


Cheers,
Dizingof


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17369 is a reply to message #17365 ] Tue, 07 September 2010 03:05 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Aren't dice supposed to lie flat on their faces? these won't.
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17447 is a reply to message #17369 ] Wed, 08 September 2010 18:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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photosfromrob wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 03:05

Aren't dice supposed to lie flat on their faces? these won't.


These are collectible/designer items.
The numbers are 1.5-2mm thick so they barely affect how the dice lie on a face.


Shapers, guess what this is?... Wink

index.php?t=getfile&id=4948&private=0


Cheers,
Dizingof


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17448 is a reply to message #16979 ] Wed, 08 September 2010 19:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Maybe we should start a new thread for all your idea's Dizingof?


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17449 is a reply to message #17448 ] Wed, 08 September 2010 19:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Youknowwho4eva wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 19:08

Maybe we should start a new thread for all your idea's Dizingof?


Be my guest buddy, i hope i didn't spam this one Very Happy
Seems relevant to me..


[Updated on: Wed, 08 September 2010 19:12 UTC]


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Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17450 is a reply to message #17447 ] Wed, 08 September 2010 19:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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dizingof wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 18:59

Shapers, guess what this is?... Wink

I'm gonna guess it's a differently-shaped D6, kinda like eM-4's crystal polydice.

Andy
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17451 is a reply to message #17450 ] Wed, 08 September 2010 19:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Drawn-Steel Hero wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 19:16

dizingof wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 18:59

Shapers, guess what this is?... Wink

I'm gonna guess it's a differently-shaped D6, kinda like eM-4's crystal polydice.

Andy


Guess again.

Picture is clickable..


http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17452 is a reply to message #17449 ] Wed, 08 September 2010 19:30 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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dizingof wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 19:11

Youknowwho4eva wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 19:08

Maybe we should start a new thread for all your idea's Dizingof?


Be my guest buddy, i hope i didn't spam this one Very Happy
Seems relevant to me..





I'm not seeing relevance to Designing dice for dice snobs. Now if you were asking about particular dice snobbery rules, and used an image as a question, then sure. But so far just looks like a bunch of ads.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
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Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17453 is a reply to message #17452 ] Wed, 08 September 2010 20:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Youknowwho4eva wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 19:30

dizingof wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 19:11

Youknowwho4eva wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 19:08

Maybe we should start a new thread for all your idea's Dizingof?


Be my guest buddy, i hope i didn't spam this one Very Happy
Seems relevant to me..





I'm not seeing relevance to Designing dice for dice snobs. Now if you were asking about particular dice snobbery rules, and used an image as a question, then sure. But so far just looks like a bunch of ads.




They are not "bunch of ads".. they are designs showcased for the opener of this thread.

New dies are what gumball is looking for.

"Snobbery" is hardly the main issue on this thread.
It's a "side note"..








http://www.3Dizingof.com
Re: Designing dice for dice snobs [message #17476 is a reply to message #17453 ] Thu, 09 September 2010 02:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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Hi, this is a new die I designed with a stylized petal design extending from the centre to the corners:

Y:\My Software\VCG\MeshLab2\PetalDieBStep5_snap1.jpg

http://www.shapeways.com/model/153064/petal_die.html?gid=ug2 8511

It has 1mm wall thicknesses. Does it look sturdy enough? I think it should be fine in plastic, but I'm not sure how it will hold up during printing in stainless steel, especially the numbers. They're attached at the top and bottom only.

Also, it is appealing to dice collectors? I'm considering whether to do the same sort of thing with different numbers of sides.

Thanks,
Gillian Posey.

(Note, opposite sides do add up to seven, and I decided to follow Magic's example in orienting the numbers!)

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