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Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10635] Thu, 11 March 2010 16:08 UTC Go to next message
avatar joris  is currently offline joris
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Tell us what you think of Mesh Medic, what needs to improve? What bugs have you found? Please try to be as specific as possible with regards to the files and software you use.
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10638 is a reply to message #10635 ] Thu, 11 March 2010 17:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Schorhr  is currently offline Schorhr
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Mesh magic is a great adition, any more info about it on the site? Did I miss to spot it?
Also, after the file has been fixed, is there a way to download a stl to look at it - or in case of adding something later, saving the aditional medic process after updating the file?

EDIT:
Just found it in the blog, neat Wink

[Updated on: Thu, 11 March 2010 17:59 UTC]

Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10642 is a reply to message #10635 ] Thu, 11 March 2010 18:11 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva is currently online Youknowwho4eva
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Does it automatically run or only if there is an issue?


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10644 is a reply to message #10642 ] Thu, 11 March 2010 18:41 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar arno  is currently offline arno
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Hi,

Previously the process was:
- upload
- email thanks for upload, we start checking
- check model
- if ok, put in my designs and mail that model is available
or if fail send email with problem

With Mesh Medic we do:
- upload
- email thanks for upload, we start checking
- check model
- if ok, put in my designs, if fail
- try to fix with mesh medic
- if success, put in my designs and mail that model is available, but was changed by our software
- or if fail send email with problem

Hope this (short) summary helps?

Kind regards, Arno
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10669 is a reply to message #10644 ] Thu, 11 March 2010 22:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar akeno  is currently offline akeno
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does this automatically fix floating geometry inside a mesh that causes a model to be hollow and then have it accidently add more material (with more then 1 shell)? how does this tell the difference between good models and a hollow model with inverted normals on the inside (with more then 1 shell)?


update:

Left to Right

Hollow has 2 shells as you can see the MM difference
Full only has one shell

The hollow shell is more expensive then the full one.. so..

in conclusion mesh medic deletes a hollowed object with 2 shells and makes it one complete shell with no hollow longer inside of it (also causing the price to skyrocket back to a solid model). this could cause a big problem for those of us who use more then 1 shell.... this effects stl AND x3d files while using magics to hollow. didn't have this problem before.

I've been looking at recently uploaded models and see other users prices skyrocket also t_t

thx to Schorhr to the test models.

[Updated on: Fri, 12 March 2010 03:24 UTC]

Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10674 is a reply to message #10635 ] Fri, 12 March 2010 00:16 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar akeno  is currently offline akeno
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here are Schorhr's test models used for this:

Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10689 is a reply to message #10635 ] Fri, 12 March 2010 13:05 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Schorhr  is currently offline Schorhr
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Yikes, that awefull model from thingyverse...
The price is down to $101, thanks once again, but it is still insane without hollowing it out Smile
I guess some things are just not fixable automatically. I cleaned up most of the model bit by bit, and only head and hand where printable, there are so many errors it is hard to spot them all :-/
http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=2159#m sg_num_7
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10698 is a reply to message #10689 ] Fri, 12 March 2010 16:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar arno  is currently offline arno
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Hi akeno,

I have taken look to the examples you provided (thanks).

- First let me say that the solohollowed has as a bounding box of 105x45x16 mm (rounded) where the solonothollowed has a bounding box of 117x51x19mm.
So the nothollowed one is bigger, but cheaper as solohollowed. This clearly identifies that there are issues with the hollowed version. The hollowed version should be way cheaper as the nothollowed, it should use less volume (prices are based on volume at Shapeways). I think for the hollowed model, the volume calculation is off due to all the mixed normals.

- Secondly about MeshMedic making the model solid: solohollowed has lots of inverted normals (I checked with minimagics). Our MeshMedic corrects inverted normals. When as a result the normals of the inner and outer shell point in the same direction, the inner shell looses it's significance and thus can be taken out (outer shell saying the inside is solid, inner shell saying inside is solid too results in only outer shell). If you manage to fix the inverted normals yourself, or at least fix enough normals so that it is clear that outershell points inwards and innershell points outwards (thus solid is in between the shells), MeshMedic will leave the model hollow.

I hope this explanation helps?

kind regards, Arno

[Updated on: Fri, 12 March 2010 17:00 UTC]

Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10699 is a reply to message #10698 ] Fri, 12 March 2010 17:27 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar arno  is currently offline arno
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Ooops Embarassed

The technies pointed out to me, I didn't explain well enough.

MeshMedic states that volume cannot be negative. Thus it points the normals of the inner shell in such a way that the volume is positive, resulting in a solid inner shell in a solid outer shell, resulting in one solid model.

When you think about it a bit more, this makes sense. The powder in the "hollow" model cannot get out ... so all material is used. Previously our software didn't see that (and may still not see that all the times). But MeshMedic does.

However, when you create 'a hole' in the model (connecting the outside to the hollow part of your model) so the material trapped on the inside can get out, this should fix all the problems. And the resulting model will be a lot cheaper.

Kind regards, Arno
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10700 is a reply to message #10699 ] Fri, 12 March 2010 17:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar akeno  is currently offline akeno
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ah I see so I guess we are paying for support material now with objects that have no holes Sad it was nice before since it added some weight w/o being penalized but I see reason for the change. Confused it might make hollowing a lot more difficult for those who just use floating geometry and no holes also.

i havent figured out how to make a clean hole in magics yet and connect the two meshes without manually doing that before time. half the time the software doesnt like the connect contour option.. yeah Crying or Very Sad

[Updated on: Fri, 12 March 2010 22:17 UTC]

Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10701 is a reply to message #10700 ] Fri, 12 March 2010 17:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Schorhr  is currently offline Schorhr
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I guess I provided the worst case scenario with that files from thingyverse Wink

I was able to repair the head (removed the inside of the mouth, eyelashes, other parts) but had to remodel the body as it had so many bugs :-/ Does not look as nice, but at that scale I hope it will be allright.
http://www.nottoxic.com/wapcc/ae/aqua/hanVShan.png
Too bad Alumide will not be continued, but in the given time, that body will have to do.

Data:
0.8cm x10cm x 3.4cm $12.02
...still need to add a hallow box and maybee make it larger, so perhaps $20- but much, much better then over $100.

Tanks for all the help, the Shapeways staff and the community are great!


The above model does have a few errors left (I guess I was a bit in a rush when doing the shoes and belt etc.), but Mesh Medic was able to cure that Smile
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10704 is a reply to message #10635 ] Fri, 12 March 2010 18:26 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Youknowwho4eva is currently online Youknowwho4eva
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Arno,
This could be not good for my Cubert's. The user pays for the trapped material already, but the insides must be hollow for it to work properly.


I learned a long time ago the wisest thing I can do is be on my own side, be an advocate for myself and others like me. -Maya Angelou
michael@shapeways.com Community Advocate
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10705 is a reply to message #10704 ] Fri, 12 March 2010 18:29 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Schorhr  is currently offline Schorhr
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Checkbox: I want Mesh Medic to repair my file if neccesary?
Or if i got it right, if there are no problems, mesh medic will not run at all?
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10708 is a reply to message #10635 ] Fri, 12 March 2010 21:08 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar EricFinley  is currently offline EricFinley
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Honestly, bravo that it does catch trapped filler material and make you pay for it. To me that always seemed like a cheat that would work given the only-manual-checks for it, which would nonetheless basically constitute cheating Shapeways. There are higher crimes, but they are few and far between. Wink

Could you, at some point, document the fixes it'll perform, so that those of us involved in, say, writing tools to do similar things don't end up duplicating too much of the same effect? Just, y'know, as a hypothetical.

(And, by the way, if you'd like to try and integrate the wall thickness algorithm from my Blender script to this, I'd be more than happy to help out with converting the code over.)
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10713 is a reply to message #10708 ] Sat, 13 March 2010 07:34 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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With all due respect, Shapeways just removed themselves as my vendor. I've been shelling my models to reduce price to make it actually affordable to print my models. MeshMedic instead *adds* the inner shell to the volume of the outer shell, creating a much, much larger model than it would have been had I never shelled it to begin with. I've already rebuilt these models once for Shapeways, I'm not about to do it again. This stinks.
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10729 is a reply to message #10713 ] Sat, 13 March 2010 23:37 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pete  is currently offline pete
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Hi Dymihail,

MeshMedic does NOT add the innershell. If you have a cube in a cube the volume you pay for is the outer cubes volume period.

Actually our intention was to make uploading easier. We are not overly concerned about the trapped extra powder inside.

regards,
Peter
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10730 is a reply to message #10729 ] Sun, 14 March 2010 01:24 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar akeno  is currently offline akeno
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Hi Pete

"MeshMedic states that volume cannot be negative."

Is it possible we can get this changed if you guys are not concerned about the trapped powder? It might make life a bit easier for those who use magics to repair stuff as well to hollow. If I'm not mistaken Shapeways uses magics as well. I'm not sure how other's hollow their stuff without it to be honest.. its really handy.


"If you have a cube in a cube the volume you pay for is the outer cubes volume period. "

just an edit here: if you make all the normals in magics 100% including the hollow shell its no different except that its more expensive and considers it an normal model here with more material.

magics NEEDS to have that negative (or known as red geometry) normals in there for it to function as a hollowed model here on shapeways if you do what you say with your cube example. when you hollow a model in magics you usually do not fix the normals on it, otherwise the first option would happen and it would be a double solid instead of hollow. i havent found it to ever work the other way around.

My hollowed model was more expensive then my solid model I used as an example, I think arno tried to explain why but now you're saying it doesn't calculate that so now I'm confused.. lol

-Ak Very Happy

[Updated on: Sun, 14 March 2010 01:48 UTC]

Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10731 is a reply to message #10729 ] Sun, 14 March 2010 02:38 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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Pete, it most certainly DOES add the inner shell. It may not supposed to work that way, but it definitely did it to mine. I uploaded two versions of the same model. The first was solid, and uploaded as a validity test. The following version was shelled. The shelled version is significantly higher cost, and it's not the first time I shelled a model. Knowing how cost is calculated, it's pretty simple to figure out that the difference was the inner shell. Checking it in Rhino and NetFabb gives me the expected decrease in volume, but uploading to Shapeways results in a much pricier model. Maybe there's something else going on on your end that I'm unaware of (entirely possible), but from my perspective there's something broken.

They're uploaded, so you're welcome to check them out. As I said, I didn't do anything different on this then I did before.
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10742 is a reply to message #10731 ] Sun, 14 March 2010 10:35 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pete  is currently offline pete
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Okay guys,

thanks for the feedback, let us look into the "extra volume" thing first.

Peter
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10748 is a reply to message #10731 ] Sun, 14 March 2010 15:06 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dadrummond  is currently offline dadrummond
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@dymhail -- Based on what you've described, something (presumably MeshMedic) inverted the normals of the inner shell on your second model. If so, that is a simple bug (to understand, at least, if not to fix), and it would be a shame not to give SW a chance to fix it.


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Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10751 is a reply to message #10748 ] Sun, 14 March 2010 17:10 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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I haven't had my emails answered and here I'm told that I'm wrong even when I'm staring right at it. But it's not just that. With all due respect, Shapeways is a real pain to deal with. If I send a file to my normal print bureau, they accept it and print it, no questions asked, no exceptions. I've grown over a hundred models without issue with them.

In contrast, Shapeways requires that they be perfect before they accept an upload. Sometimes that requires a fair amount of work (I know, learn to model better). Once they're accepted, they may still be rejected during a manual check for wall thickness issues that the machine is quite capable of doing. I've proven repeatedly that it can be done (talked them into doing it anyway, then sent pictures of the results). Talking them into a one-off for me is a hassle, but do-able. Finding out more than a week later than an order is canceled is a deal-breaker for customers that want these models. I have close to 50 models available for viewing right now and none are available for purchase. This is why. They said they would consider changing it or putting in an exception for me if I grow an engineering proof, but I haven't heard back. That's the functional equivalent of a "No."

I want to use Shapeways for two reasons: Price and convenience. The price is generally low enough that direct digital manufacturing is possible. The convenience aspect is much more important. I can open a storefront here with all of my models. I don't have to maintain inventory. Shapeways handles all order fulfillment. But it doesn't work when orders get canceled a week later.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but it's pretty frustrating. I've tried to use Shapeways multiple times since they started and this is the closest I've gotten to success. But two months later and it's still a no-go. Look at this from my perspective: Is it reasonable for me to tell my customers to go to multiple different websites to get different-but-related models? Research shows that the more hoops a customer has to jump through the less likely they are to purchase.

Right now, Shapeways does not work *for me*, but I don't think it's for reasons that can't be fixed.
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10752 is a reply to message #10751 ] Sun, 14 March 2010 17:52 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar aoster  is currently offline aoster
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Hi dymihail,
dymihail wrote on Sun, 14 March 2010 17:10

If I send a file to my normal print bureau, they accept it and print it, no questions asked, no exceptions. I've grown over a hundred models without issue with them.



I think you are expecting a bit too much at the moment. If you send a file to a common print bureau, you are simply paying a price for the service - here for manually making your file printable. On the other hand, the whole concept of Shapeways is about going to the mass market (which is by the way a great thing to do), but this means guaranteeing low prices in the first place.

What it does not mean is that they drive the possibilities of the machines to its limit, since this is always causing risks and therefore increasing the costs tremendously.

It is a bit unfair to demand 50% of the prices of print bureaus but under the same conditions. Furthermore, Shapeways seems very busy in improving their system, so just be patient...

Finally, I don't think that it is too hard to get uploaded printable models. A lot of people do that and are thankful for a service offering them access to affordable 3D printing.

Best regards,
Alex

[Updated on: Sun, 14 March 2010 17:58 UTC]

Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10753 is a reply to message #10751 ] Sun, 14 March 2010 18:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar virtox is currently online virtox
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Hmmm Sad

Sounds a lot like a rant to me Wink
And yes I know your story, and I do understand.

First of, the inverted volumes problem is a simple bug, comes with the territory of Shapeways jumping to the demand for more easily uploading models and less hassle. So it comes with a bug, will be solved in no time, I guess.

And at the moment they are busy at a maker fair I believe, but usually several employees provide service and replies on Saturday and Sunday.
What more can we ask...

But anyway, the way Shapeways is trying to do business (open to everyone at affordable rates, with a specific price model) comes with... a price... of a little more hassle sometimes.

In your case I understand the frustration, you spend a lot of time and money and are still no further to a real solution.

But I have also seen the models. You know I personally spent a lot of time trying to fix them, unfortunately to no avail.
But they are truly horrific (technically speaking), and I find it a small miracle that some softwares can make heads or tails of them.

And if you don't need the exact volume for price calculation, they are of course only simple models and easily printable.
But the rules of shapeways are clear and up front, manifold and watertight models only.

The fact that you have an incompatible model collection, is no ones fault except circumstances..

As I understand from your story, Shapeways have already worked with you a lot on this. Seems like extreme service to me...
And as far as I can tell, enough people from the community have been trying to help you out

So nothing personal, but I found you increasing negativity quite unfair.

Kind regards,

Stijn




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Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10754 is a reply to message #10635 ] Sun, 14 March 2010 22:02 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar GHP  is currently offline GHP
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I have a suggestion for Shapeways. I assume that they currently flag models that have been manually checked and found to be unprintable (or probably unprintable) due to thin walls, so that they don't have recheck the model if it is ordered again. (Obviously, this would have to be cleared when a new version of the model was uploaded.)

Could they perhaps add a flag that indicates that a model is "provisionally printable", or "printable until proven otherwise", for cases where they have been persuaded to try printing (successfully) something that didn't pass the manual check? I realize this may be risky, but if Shapeways was willing to take the risk once, continuing to do so until the model has been shown to be a problem could help improve customer satisfaction. When customers (non-designers, especially) try to order models only to have the orders cancelled, they are less likely to take a risk on other models, especially since they get a credit towards other purchases rather than an actual refund when a model is labelled unprintable.

Also, if the model has been demonstrated to be unsafe to print, it will be easier to convince the designer of the need for changes, reducing their dissatisfaction with the service also.
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10755 is a reply to message #10635 ] Sun, 14 March 2010 22:23 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Schorhr  is currently offline Schorhr
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Well, I finaly got all my alumide models uploaded, and I have to say:
-mesh magic saves time with simpler errors, great!
-mesh magic will make some thing worse when trying to fix it

I suggest that you enable to download a fixed file as stl to check what has been fixed and if details have been changed.
One of my models has smaller details and the 3d preview did not work in one case, on the other it was just not visible fully.

What I REALLY would like, even though it is off topic: A function similar to image editors Dilate/Erode filters, in case something is too thin! Instead of canceling an order or an upload, it would be really usefull to just print it if the fine edges/details are not importaint.
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10758 is a reply to message #10755 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 00:42 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dymihail  is currently offline dymihail
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Wow. Shapeways asks for honest feedback, I provide it, and I'm the bad guy. There's nothing negative about reporting on problems and it's a little scary that people would think so. Maybe I should have thrown out a bunch of emoticons.

I was going to try to explain further the details so that people could be informed by jumping in, but it seems you've all already made up your minds. I want Shapeways to succeed as much as anyone. We all benefit when they do.

I'll add two possible additions to the chain.

1) If a validation check flags a model that has previously been checked as good, stop and inform the customer. Do not issue a voucher. Do not grow everything else and continue on as if nothing is amiss. Inform the customer and present options. Don't wait two weeks to do this.

2) When a customer presents you with a problem (especially when you solicit the response), do not respond by publicly telling them that they're wrong. Instead tell them that whatever issue is happening should not be happening and that you'll look into it and work towards a solution. Don't wait two weeks to do this.

The Dilate/Erode filter might work if the effect can be localized. VisCAM has something similar, but the effect is applied to the entire model (at least, it was the last time I looked, which was a while ago. Didn't do what I needed, so I moved on).
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10759 is a reply to message #10729 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 01:07 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dadrummond  is currently offline dadrummond
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Pete -- in your response to dymihail, you write,

Quote:

MeshMedic does NOT add the innershell. If you have a cube in a cube the volume you pay for is the outer cubes volume period.


I can confirm that this is not correct. See a simple test, a 2x2x2 cube with 1x1x1 cube inside it, available here. This is 8 cm3 and in stainless steel (the easiest to calculate, at $10/cm3), that should be $80. As you can see, the price is $90, meaning the inner cube's volume is included.


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Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10762 is a reply to message #10758 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 06:49 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar virtox is currently online virtox
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EDIT: Most stupid remarks removed, sorry Rolling Eyes
Trying to make myself a bit smaller.

[Updated on: Tue, 16 March 2010 00:30 UTC]


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Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10764 is a reply to message #10762 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 07:28 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar virtox is currently online virtox
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One thing I'm curious about, I thought mesh medic was not supposed to do anything until something is wrong with the model ?
So flipping inverted volumes should not happen under normal circumstances, but could happen in models which were not manifold in the first place ?

Kind regards,
Stijn

[Updated on: Mon, 15 March 2010 07:43 UTC]


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Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10767 is a reply to message #10764 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 09:21 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar eriks  is currently offline eriks
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I'm not all that technical about 3D printing, (still only have halve a clue what "shells" mean) so I've generally been trying to keep away from this thread. Also because I've forgot to pack my kevlar Razz

However, one bit of confusion I can fix rather quickly. The e-mail template has a bug. So currently it always says that the model got fixed by mesh medic, even if it wasn't. Embarassed
Yes sorry for that. 100% my fault for not testing that good enough. I will get that fixed today, and will post a reply here when it is done.

Also dadrummond, I have looked at your cube test model, and the normals of the inner cube are pointed outwards. So isn't it logical that it gets ignored?
I am under the impression that if I wanted to make my model hollow I would need to create a inner cube which is part of the mesh that has normals pointed inwards.

But correct me if I'm wrong, because while I may be quite confident when it comes to web technologies, I'm rather an amateur when it comes to 3D models and whatchamacallit. But don't worry, I don't work on the 3D software, fortunately people who understand the matter do that.

About the rather rough discussion. Text is a very difficult medium to convey intonation and subtlety in. If anyone feels offended or angered just count till ten and read the post again while trying to keep in mind that the person probably doesn't mean it that bad.

I think the gnome Code Of Conduct describes it best.
Quote:

Assume people mean well:
If something seems outrageous, check that you did not misinterpret it. Ask for clarification, but do not assume the worst.


http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10768 is a reply to message #10635 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 09:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar Schorhr  is currently offline Schorhr
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Thanks for the info, I was uncertain why some things where fixed by mash magic even though they where fine before Smile
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10770 is a reply to message #10768 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 09:56 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The issue has been resolved, now the mail correctly reflects if mesh medic has been tinkering with your model or not.
Again, apologies for the confusion this has caused.
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10771 is a reply to message #10768 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 09:57 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar joris  is currently offline joris
Messages: 426
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OK, lets stop for a minute and do a group hug.

a few things:

we appreciate any and all feedback.
we want feedback, it makes us better.
we need feedback, we need to be better
we are not easily offended
we sincerely believe that we can learn from any any and all feedback.

it is very important for us that you all get along.

Joris

Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10772 is a reply to message #10767 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 09:59 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar virtox is currently online virtox
Messages: 1157
Registered: August 2008
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You are correct on all counts I believe Rolling Eyes

Volumes need to be negative to actually subtract volume/price.

And my humble apologies for any roughness on my side, just having a bad Monday.. No excuse, I know Embarassed

[Updated on: Mon, 15 March 2010 10:02 UTC]


- Artist / Engineer / Designer / Shopowner / Volunteer / Moderator -
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10773 is a reply to message #10759 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 15:32 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dadrummond  is currently offline dadrummond
Messages: 246
Registered: August 2008
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Hi eriks -- Thanks for the response. Confusion remains. Pete's post said nothing about normals (I'm aware of exactly how they work), and in any case does not make sense no matter which direction the normals face. He stated that the "If you have a cube in a cube the volume you pay for is the outer cubes volume period." This statement is completely clear: it says "the outer cube's volume period", not "the outer cube's volume minus the inner cube's volume if the inner normals are inverted, and the sum of the two cube volumes otherwise". Please clarify. Thanks!

[Updated on: Mon, 15 March 2010 15:44 UTC]


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Elytra on Shapeways: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/elytra
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10794 is a reply to message #10773 ] Mon, 15 March 2010 22:09 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar pete  is currently offline pete
Messages: 403
Registered: February 2008
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Hi guys,

this seems to be a complex thing and we are going to do a blogpost on the exact current workings soon, but here a quick attempt at answering.

1) If a model is correct(tm) MeshMedic does not touch it.
Correct meaning:
- 2 manifold
- no mixed winding = mixed normals
- no overlapping traingles

2) If not correct, then MeshMedic gives it a shot to correct the above.

3) If fixed, than we calculate volume and this is used to price the object

If MeshMedic has fixed the model, than nested objects are not calculated twice, if the model was correct to begin with, we have the double counting bug.

This bug is scheduled for fixing this month (either this or next week).

Now, as all of this is quite new, we are still testing all kinds of corner cases ourselves, so please give us some slack, but the above is the INTENDED behavior, which we will achieve within the next couple of days (maybe weeks).

Hope this helps.
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #10803 is a reply to message #10794 ] Tue, 16 March 2010 01:44 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar dadrummond  is currently offline dadrummond
Messages: 246
Registered: August 2008
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Senior Member
Thanks, pete. That's clear, and resolves at least some of the confusion above.

Out of curiosity -- I model mostly by creating separate overlapping meshes, knowing that this design strategy makes my models more expensive than they need to be due to double-counting. It sounds like you guys have implemented some kind of algorithm in MeshMedic to only count overlapping volumes once. Is that right? Or is only the case of one object fully containing another object covered?

Either way, this is a great step forward. Thanks for the continuing efforts.


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Elytra on Shapeways: http://www.shapeways.com/shops/elytra
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #11302 is a reply to message #10635 ] Thu, 01 April 2010 03:48 UTC Go to previous messageGo to next message
avatar akeno  is currently offline akeno
Messages: 114
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Any update on the negative geometry bug? Razz
Re: Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic [message #12895 is a reply to message #10635 ] Sun, 16 May 2010 04:41 UTC Go to previous message
avatar b1103010  is currently offline b1103010
Messages: 1
Registered: May 2010
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Junior Member
Please add an explanation about what it was that Mesh Medic did to the file in the confirmation mail or on the website. Knowing that something was automagically fixed is good, but not knowing what exactly it was makes it difficult to do it right the next time.

 
   
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