Anxiously Waiting the new silver announcement.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by baltimore, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. baltimore
    baltimore Member
    Hey everyone!

    Any guesses what you think the pricing structure will be for the new silver run?

    Last time it was $30 minimum per part, with a price of $48 per cubic centimeter. Nancy said she was 95% sure it'd be atleast as cheap and maybe cheaper with the per part minimum perhaps higher.

    What are your guesses?
     
  2. pete
    pete Shapeways Employee CEO
    Hehehe :)
     
  3. baltimore
    baltimore Member
    I'm guessing $40/cc and $45 minimum order.

    any other guesses?
     
  4. Magic
    Magic Well-Known Member
    I would play if the one who gets closer wins a print in Sterling Silver. OK?
    :)
     
  5. lensman
    lensman Well-Known Member
    How about $5cc and $10 minimum? Oh, wait, sorry, I just got back from Fantasyland :)

    Glenn
     
  6. baltimore
    baltimore Member
    $5/cc is less than the spot price of silver.

    currently silver costs $36.01 per ounce.
    1 ounce ~= 28.3 grams
    mass of silver is 10.5g/cc

    That's ($36.01/1oz)*(1oz/28.3g)*(10.5g/cc) = $13.36/cc for just the silver material.

    So... I think $5/cc is... low.

    =)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2011
  7. baltimore
    baltimore Member
    yay it's finally available again!

    40/cc for the first cc, and 20/cc thereafter. $40 minimum
     
  8. 20201_deleted
    20201_deleted Member
    Silver weight is measured by Troy oz. 1troy oz. = 31.10 grms.

    With spot prices approaching $40. oz. It's time to consider melting down grannies flatware :D
    -G
     
  9. baltimore
    baltimore Member
    yep you're right. i forgot about that when I was doing my calculations... so that lowers the price some but still...

    redoing the calculations from before just taking into account my mistake of the oz vs troy oz, you get:
    ($36.01/Troy oz)*(Troy 1oz/31.1 g)*(10.5g/cc) = $12.15/cc

    adjusting for my oz vs troy oz mistake, and updating to todays current price of silver which is $35.03/troy oz:

    ($35.03/Troy oz)*(Troy 1oz/31.1 g)*(10.5g/cc) = $11.82/cc
     
  10. 35653_deleted
    35653_deleted Member
    Silver is here! :D

    Looks like $20 per cubic cm with a $20 startup cost. A little pricey for me, but look at those design rules! I have a ring I've been trying to make work with the SS design rules, but it's just not come out... But it seems to be printable in Silver if I just make a few minor tweaks! Gotta start saving up, hehe.
     
  11. 20201_deleted
    20201_deleted Member
    The daily spot price of Silver is only going to be helpful to you if you know the percentage margin that has been added for producing prints in Sterling.
     
  12. stop4stuff
    stop4stuff Well-Known Member
    The percentage margin varies depending upon the spot price... and for those of us used to currencies other than USD, monetary exchange rates also come into play.

    But all that is bye-the-bye...

    The cost of silver is imaterial if the item cannot be sold as silver... any news on EU hallmarking?
     
  13. 20201_deleted
    20201_deleted Member
    The"margin" I am referring to is a fixed percentage that service providers will add to the spot price of materials. This margin accounts for processing, handling and the difficulties associated with dealing in commodities (especially precious ones). So if you deduct the spot price of .999 pure (fine) silver, from what SW charges per volume you will know this margin. I trust that the clever folks at SW have thought long and hard about how to fairly price this volatile commodity.

    I'm not up on international silver standards but I know that "SIlver" is actually a rather generic term. Silver is available in many flavors but I have always assumed that if something is marked .925 it is universally accepted as being Sterling Silver? You might like to visit the link below where current EU hallmarks and standards are being discussed.

    http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5137

    -G
     
  14. bitstoatoms
    bitstoatoms Member
    Hiya guys,

    Mass, price and non-linear equations aside, Nancy is looking into EU Hallmarking and may have something in the coming week(s)..

    Cheers
     
  15. stop4stuff
    stop4stuff Well-Known Member
    Cheers Glen, the pdf linked to in that thread shows the relevant hallmarks for EU member countries.

    About a year ago I was invloved with a UK company selling silver items, I made extensive enquiries about UK hallmarking legislation. Something marked .925 is not acceptable for a UK company to sell. Even if the business is web based and the items are dropshipped from Thailand, the item must have the proper hallmarks. An item may not be called Silver if it does not carry the proper hallmarks. Items being retailed as Silver without proper hallmarking leaves the seller open to criminal procesution (applicable to the UK - other countries may differ)

    Here my little list of links applicable to the UK if anyone wishes to take a look.

    The Hallmarking (International Convention) Order 2002
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/506/introduction/mad e

    Consumers Guide to UK Hallmarking Law
    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/tna/+/http://www.d ti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/pdf1/hallmarks.pdf/

    Retailers Guide to Hallmarking
    http://bis.gov.uk/assets/bispartners/britishhallmarkingcounc il/docs/retailers-guide-to-hallmarks-05.pdf

    British Hall Marking Council - Guidance Notes
    http://bis.gov.uk/assets/bispartners/britishhallmarkingcounc il/docs/hallmark-guidance-notes-final.pdf

    Also the following pdf applicable to the Netherlands shows the standards acceptable under the International Standards Convention. http://www.ewnederland.nl/hallmarks.pdf
    - main site - http://www.ewnederland.nl/uk_index.php

    @ drscott - my google-fu on the subject is strong ;) if Nancy needs a hand, gimme a shout.
     
  16. 20201_deleted
    20201_deleted Member
    There is a dizzying array of hallmarks (icons) that are used in different countries to denote silver grades. These are typically applied to fabricated goods by mechanical stamping. I wonder if these could be included in the computer model and cast in place? Then there is the problem of making sure the correct hallmark was applied based on the final destination of the object. Logistical nightmare eh!

    -G
     
  17. stop4stuff
    stop4stuff Well-Known Member
    Glen, here in the UK, selling a Silver item with a printed hallmark carries just the same criminal implications if not more so. Rapid prototyping and 3D printing for silver was how I found Shapeways... the same thoughts went through my head and I checked it out, but for us Brits, thats a no go :(

    For countries that have signed up to the International Convention Standards, any member county's hallmarks are good in another member's country. For the UK, any item bought as a 'personal commission', i.e. me buying my own models in Silver from Shapeways doesn't need a hallmark, but technically under UK law, if a Silver item is sold through my Shapeways shop to someone in a member country, then that item would require the appropriate hallmark under UK law (Dutch or British hallmark.) - The only workaround I can forsee on that side of things is if Shapeways was a 'Members Only Outlet' and all models were 'Private Commissions'

    For me, re-selling Shapeways Silver items over 7.78g (~0.7cc) from Shapeways would need the items to have a round trip to the London Assay Office to be assayed and stamped. This roughly doubles the cost price of a 1cc item, adds 35% to a 2cc item, etc.

    Having said all that, I'm looking forward to next week when I can sit down and order some Silver for myself :)

    For those going to the Newcastle Maker Faire - see you tomorrow :)
     
  18. 20201_deleted
    20201_deleted Member
    Paul,
    There is a good chance you already know of this link. It is today, what was known as the Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths when founded in the year 1300! Some history eh? Not sure if they would be of any help to you.

    In light of the fact that you are only acting as a designer, not a silversmith, not a manufacturer, somehow you would think there would be a loophole allowing sales of imported goods? Then again, that's exactly the sort of issue that spawned the guild system.

    Anyway, the WCG website is quite lovely and much of the contemporary work is worth looking at: http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/

    In the US we have the Society of North American Goldsmiths . Quite a different beast and it dates back less than 50 years. But it is a great repository of of information on the art and craft of metal smithing.

    -G

     
  19. 50342_deleted
    50342_deleted Member
    Do we have any information about the kind of wax printer that is being used?

    also, re the hallmarking, in the UK items under 7 gms don't need to be hallmarked, but anything over that, you can't technically sell it as silver without a hallmark.

    You can have 925 as part of your wax model, but that is NOT a hallmark and it's actually pretty meaningless. If you have a hallmark which is the stamp from an assay office and a purity mark cast into your silver item, then you are risking prison.

    There are ways around it, you can just sell it as silver coloured metal or say it isn't hallmarked but guaranteed to be sterling silver. Anyone making stuff in silver regularly would be as well to get registered with an assay office but one offs can also be hallmarked. not sure how much that costs though.
     
  20. stop4stuff
    stop4stuff Well-Known Member
    Yep, as long as a silver item is under 7.78g (~0.7cc) it won't need to be hallmarked.

    Hallmark pricing can be found via the Sheffield Assay Office Pricing page and the good news is that the prices have gone down since last year when I last cheked :)