"We do not print or allow weaponry of any kind...." UPDATE

So today I received a "Help us resolve issues with your customer's order" letter.

The issue is-

Reason: Content Policy

Description: This model is prohibited by Shapeways content policy, specifically: "Some examples of content that is prohibited and will be removed (private or public): Content that resembles weapons or weapon accessories (exceptions are made for miniatures, maximum size 10cm).". We do not print or allow weaponry of any kind to be posted on Shapeways.com, as outlined in our Terms and Conditions and Content Policy, following applicable Dutch and U.S. law.

What the customer wants and what I'm trying to sell is a 1/16 scale model M1897A4 75mm Antitank Gun.

This-

Since the start of the year I've sold plenty of 1/16 scale weapons including -

1/16 scale 105mm Howitzer



and plenty of scale machine guns. And I've seen lots of other scale weapons available on Shapeways


Anyone any ideas how I can resolve this issue? It seems Shapeways weapons policy is a bit hit and miss.

Also a bit worried because I've got all sorts of 1/16 scale weapons in the pipeline and if I can't get this sorted then I've wasted months of work.

Guess somebody had a bad day and mistook this for a handgun, or thought it could be mistaken for one. Did you explain this case to service (replying to the rejection message) ? I doubt they would go so far as rejecting models of battle tanks, aircraft carriers or anime mechas all of a sudden just because they happen to be bigger than 10 cm ...
(If resemblance of handgun is the problem, perhaps add a small base to it that makes it look even more unlikely to be one)

I see what you mean but if that's the case they Shapeways logic is even more baffling. If somebody wanted something that looks like a handgun then why would they pay $50 for this (which may resemble a handgun if you're looking at it in the dark) when they could buy a toy gun and a can of black paint for less then $10.

How long is the barrel?

You may be able to appeal the restriction if you plug the barrel such that it's obvious that it does not have a hole all the way thru.. but could be drilled out in post-production.

The law is not specifically about 3d printing, but about manufacturing weapons and items meant to be easily mistaken for one (and yes toy guns looked much more like the real thing in my youth than they do now, and still we lived to tell the tale. Would not surprise me if that part of weapons law has been "harmonized" already and also exists in the UK). Think all this hinges on the interpretation if your model "looks very much like a pistol" (a 12cm sherman tank in someone's hand would obviously not be considered a credible threat)

A cap won't solve the problem, legally toys need an orange cap in the US.

The problem is legality. We can not knowingly produce weapons, weapons accessories, and includes miniatures that are over 10cm.

I see your Howitzer is 2 pieces, could you make the Antitank 2 pieces that are smaller than the 10cm?

Thanks for flagging guys, I'm looking into this.

wozwasntere can you remove "gun" from the end of the title? that might be whats setting it off.

I'll work with my team to have the model reordered and put into production.

Just an FYI, we're aware that the way the current content policy works can cause some illogical rejections like in this case. I know that its annoying, so thanks for bearing with us. We're actively reviewing and revamping this policy and hope to have an update on it soon. the updates to the terms and conditions that went out last week was the first part of the project.

I re uploaded the same model but left the title as its file name "M1897A4" and the customer ordered it over four hours ago, so far no rejection letter.

ah OK, can you link me to the file?

Safe -1/16 scale M1897A4 http://shpws.me/J4Ce

Not Safe - 1/16 scale M1897A4 75mm AT Gun http://shpws.me/J4fK


Out of curiosity I had a quick search to see what other scale weapons I could find and there's plenty that are over the 10cm limit. There are model drones complete with Hellfire missiles - 13cm or a Stealth Drone that is 25cm.

Just get their designers to include "gun" somewhere in the title and they will be gone as well... I can bring myself to understand why they would want to use a trivial word filter to alert them to potentially problematic orders, but automatic rejection without somebody checking what was actually flagged as inappropriate ?? (I wonder if/how this will be expanded to the new T&C rule on "offensive" user names given the international customer base, where naughty words in one language may well be harmless surnames or nicknames somewhere else)

yeah searching for terms like "gun" yields a lot of results and certainly not all of them should be prevented from printing. Having the word "gun" in the title does not mean that something will be rejected, but it can be a clue for when we're investigating a suspicious model and could be a factor in someone making the judgement to reject.

We're going to update the Content Policy to improve this. A few things are still in flux so its hard to elaborate here but the change is coming within the next few weeks, so be on the lookout.

"Congratulations - your products have gone from a First To Try product to a successfully printed product in some materials."

Well the 1/16 scale M1897A4 has been printed with no problems.

Still no word from support as to why the exact same model was rejected because it had gun in the title (1/16 scale M1897A4 75mm AT gun).

Isn't 11 days a long time to be waiting for a reply (especially if I had a customer waiting) ?

Hey wozwasntere,

Since its now printed successfully you should be able to sell it again without trouble. Feel free to inform the customer.

The customer bought it.

Problem is that by not giving it its full title with "AT Gun" at the end means it is less likely to come up in a search.

Also a response from Customer Service could have helped clear things up. What happens in future when I upload another AT Gun?

I wanted to chime in here (both as the Shapeways Trust & Safety Office and as a general community member). As Andrew pointed out, we are doing a lot work and research in the background to rebuild our content policy. After all, it does produce some unintended consequences and definitely needs to be improved.

That being said, we do not yet have a new content policy. We are working with the current content policy which states that we do not print weapons. It also states that we do not print weapon replicas over 10 cm. Technically, this models violates that second part. It is a weapon replica that is over 10 cm.

For the record, the concern is not "gun" in the title. That is NOT what brought this to anyone's attention nor the reason it was cancelled. We do look at different aspects of models when they are being checked. It is not a generic filter that just pulls all models with "gun" or similar and then rejects them. As I mentioned above, this model does technically violate that content policy.

In this case, there is little doubt that this model is not meant to threaten others and that makes sense. We are willing to make an exception to the content policy while we rework the policy. We can work in the spirit of the policy as opposed to the letter of the policy. However, please know that going outside of normal processes takes a lot of communication across continents. There is still a chance that an engineer will review the model without seeing the exception. It is the reality of the system as it currently stands.

Again, we are working on that policy (and system) now. Look for good things to come and to know improvements are coming. In the mean time, work with us and we will do what we can to support you.

(I would also note that two different model files, uploaded separately, are not correlated in any way in our system. If one was cancelled or printed, it will have no affect on the other model and this history from the other model will not be viewable to anyone checking the current model.)

Sorry, not sure I can follow. So was it the remote likeness to a pistol that caused the rejection after all (despite your colleagues' comments to the contrary) ? Or are you bound by the letter of your very own content policy rather than its intent, although no sane prosecutor would press charges against the creator of a twelve-inch plastic field artillery piece ?

First, there is a difference between the law and our policy. The idea of our policy is built around the law and that is where the initial policy comes from. But our decisions are not based on whether or not a model can be prosecuted in court. We drew the line at weapons and also weapon replicas over 10 cm.

Is this a model over 10 cm? Yes. Is it a replica of a real world weapon? Yes. Therefore, it violates that policy.

Are we willing to look beyond that violation and allow the print given the circumstances? Yes.

In future cases, you might need to reach out to our team (via service@shapeways.com) for exceptions. If you can work within the policy, it will save you future concern for sure. If you need exceptions, then we will do our best to work on a case-by-case basis while we revamp the content policy.

I hope that makes it clear how the policy works and how we are also willing to work with this designer.

Quaker investors, or just something that sounded like a good idea at the time ? Where do you draw the line regarding "weapon", that kind of strict enforcement would appear to kill a significant number of historic military equipment from the shops, from early WW1 planes to warship models of all sorts right back to the medieval era ?