Feedback, suggestions & bugs for Mesh Medic

Tell us what you think of Mesh Medic, what needs to improve? What bugs have you found? Please try to be as specific as possible with regards to the files and software you use.

Mesh magic is a great adition, any more info about it on the site? Did I miss to spot it?
Also, after the file has been fixed, is there a way to download a stl to look at it - or in case of adding something later, saving the aditional medic process after updating the file?

EDIT:
Just found it in the blog, neat

Does it automatically run or only if there is an issue?

Hi,

Previously the process was:
- upload
- email thanks for upload, we start checking
- check model
- if ok, put in my designs and mail that model is available
or if fail send email with problem

With Mesh Medic we do:
- upload
- email thanks for upload, we start checking
- check model
- if ok, put in my designs, if fail
- try to fix with mesh medic
- if success, put in my designs and mail that model is available, but was changed by our software
- or if fail send email with problem

Hope this (short) summary helps?

Kind regards, Arno

does this automatically fix floating geometry inside a mesh that causes a model to be hollow and then have it accidently add more material (with more then 1 shell)? how does this tell the difference between good models and a hollow model with inverted normals on the inside (with more then 1 shell)?


update:

Left to Right

Hollow has 2 shells as you can see the MM difference
Full only has one shell

The hollow shell is more expensive then the full one.. so..

in conclusion mesh medic deletes a hollowed object with 2 shells and makes it one complete shell with no hollow longer inside of it (also causing the price to skyrocket back to a solid model). this could cause a big problem for those of us who use more then 1 shell.... this effects stl AND x3d files while using magics to hollow. didn't have this problem before.

I've been looking at recently uploaded models and see other users prices skyrocket also t_t

thx to Schorhr to the test models.

here are Schorhr's test models used for this:

Yikes, that awefull model from thingyverse...
The price is down to $101, thanks once again, but it is still insane without hollowing it out
I guess some things are just not fixable automatically. I cleaned up most of the model bit by bit, and only head and hand where printable, there are so many errors it is hard to spot them all :-/
https://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=2159#m sg_num_7

Hi akeno,

I have taken look to the examples you provided (thanks).

- First let me say that the solohollowed has as a bounding box of 105x45x16 mm (rounded) where the solonothollowed has a bounding box of 117x51x19mm.
So the nothollowed one is bigger, but cheaper as solohollowed. This clearly identifies that there are issues with the hollowed version. The hollowed version should be way cheaper as the nothollowed, it should use less volume (prices are based on volume at Shapeways). I think for the hollowed model, the volume calculation is off due to all the mixed normals.

- Secondly about MeshMedic making the model solid: solohollowed has lots of inverted normals (I checked with minimagics). Our MeshMedic corrects inverted normals. When as a result the normals of the inner and outer shell point in the same direction, the inner shell looses it's significance and thus can be taken out (outer shell saying the inside is solid, inner shell saying inside is solid too results in only outer shell). If you manage to fix the inverted normals yourself, or at least fix enough normals so that it is clear that outershell points inwards and innershell points outwards (thus solid is in between the shells), MeshMedic will leave the model hollow.

I hope this explanation helps?

kind regards, Arno

Ooops :blush:

The technies pointed out to me, I didn't explain well enough.

MeshMedic states that volume cannot be negative. Thus it points the normals of the inner shell in such a way that the volume is positive, resulting in a solid inner shell in a solid outer shell, resulting in one solid model.

When you think about it a bit more, this makes sense. The powder in the "hollow" model cannot get out ... so all material is used. Previously our software didn't see that (and may still not see that all the times). But MeshMedic does.

However, when you create 'a hole' in the model (connecting the outside to the hollow part of your model) so the material trapped on the inside can get out, this should fix all the problems. And the resulting model will be a lot cheaper.

Kind regards, Arno

ah I see so I guess we are paying for support material now with objects that have no holes it was nice before since it added some weight w/o being penalized but I see reason for the change. :confused it might make hollowing a lot more difficult for those who just use floating geometry and no holes also.

i havent figured out how to make a clean hole in magics yet and connect the two meshes without manually doing that before time. half the time the software doesnt like the connect contour option.. yeah :cry:

I guess I provided the worst case scenario with that files from thingyverse

I was able to repair the head (removed the inside of the mouth, eyelashes, other parts) but had to remodel the body as it had so many bugs :-/ Does not look as nice, but at that scale I hope it will be allright.
https://www.nottoxic.com/wapcc/ae/aqua/hanVShan.png
Too bad Alumide will not be continued, but in the given time, that body will have to do.

Data:
0.8cm x10cm x 3.4cm $12.02
...still need to add a hallow box and maybee make it larger, so perhaps $20- but much, much better then over $100.

Tanks for all the help, the Shapeways staff and the community are great!


The above model does have a few errors left (I guess I was a bit in a rush when doing the shoes and belt etc.), but Mesh Medic was able to cure that

Arno,
This could be not good for my Cubert's. The user pays for the trapped material already, but the insides must be hollow for it to work properly.

Checkbox: I want Mesh Medic to repair my file if neccesary?
Or if i got it right, if there are no problems, mesh medic will not run at all?

Honestly, bravo that it does catch trapped filler material and make you pay for it. To me that always seemed like a cheat that would work given the only-manual-checks for it, which would nonetheless basically constitute cheating Shapeways. There are higher crimes, but they are few and far between.

Could you, at some point, document the fixes it'll perform, so that those of us involved in, say, writing tools to do similar things don't end up duplicating too much of the same effect? Just, y'know, as a hypothetical.

(And, by the way, if you'd like to try and integrate the wall thickness algorithm from my Blender script to this, I'd be more than happy to help out with converting the code over.)

With all due respect, Shapeways just removed themselves as my vendor. I've been shelling my models to reduce price to make it actually affordable to print my models. MeshMedic instead *adds* the inner shell to the volume of the outer shell, creating a much, much larger model than it would have been had I never shelled it to begin with. I've already rebuilt these models once for Shapeways, I'm not about to do it again. This stinks.

Hi Pete

"MeshMedic states that volume cannot be negative."

Is it possible we can get this changed if you guys are not concerned about the trapped powder? It might make life a bit easier for those who use magics to repair stuff as well to hollow. If I'm not mistaken Shapeways uses magics as well. I'm not sure how other's hollow their stuff without it to be honest.. its really handy.


"If you have a cube in a cube the volume you pay for is the outer cubes volume period. "

just an edit here: if you make all the normals in magics 100% including the hollow shell its no different except that its more expensive and considers it an normal model here with more material.

magics NEEDS to have that negative (or known as red geometry) normals in there for it to function as a hollowed model here on shapeways if you do what you say with your cube example. when you hollow a model in magics you usually do not fix the normals on it, otherwise the first option would happen and it would be a double solid instead of hollow. i havent found it to ever work the other way around.

My hollowed model was more expensive then my solid model I used as an example, I think arno tried to explain why but now you're saying it doesn't calculate that so now I'm confused.. lol

-Ak

Pete, it most certainly DOES add the inner shell. It may not supposed to work that way, but it definitely did it to mine. I uploaded two versions of the same model. The first was solid, and uploaded as a validity test. The following version was shelled. The shelled version is significantly higher cost, and it's not the first time I shelled a model. Knowing how cost is calculated, it's pretty simple to figure out that the difference was the inner shell. Checking it in Rhino and NetFabb gives me the expected decrease in volume, but uploading to Shapeways results in a much pricier model. Maybe there's something else going on on your end that I'm unaware of (entirely possible), but from my perspective there's something broken.

They're uploaded, so you're welcome to check them out. As I said, I didn't do anything different on this then I did before.

@dymhail -- Based on what you've described, something (presumably MeshMedic) inverted the normals of the inner shell on your second model. If so, that is a simple bug (to understand, at least, if not to fix), and it would be a shame not to give SW a chance to fix it.